Mar 4, 2025 · 27m · the-pitch
#113 HILOS: Is This The Perfect Business?
Elias Stahl · 12m spoken Josh Muccio · 5m spoken Phil Nadel · 1m spoken Victor Gutwein · 1m spoken Mark Phillips · 37s spoken Jillian Manus · 32s spoken Neal Sales-Griffin · 27s spoken
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
Elias Stahl pitches HILOS, an on-demand 3D-printed footwear operating system designed to eradicate supply chain waste, to a panel of venture capitalists on The Pitch. Although the investors unanimously pass due to valuation concerns, HILOS ultimately oversubscribes its funding round to $5 million to accelerate commercial expansion.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Josh holds 27.9% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Josh as informed peer 4.4 Guest teaching 2.9 Guest disagreement 2.6 Josh pushing back 4.0
speaking balance: gold is Josh, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 16:47 Not getting cheaper next round
Elias pushes back defensively on the investors' unanimous valuation pass by telling them HILOS will only be more expensive in future rounds.
Hardest push from Josh ▶ 10:22 Margin math discrepancyPhil refuses to accept Elias's numbers, explicitly showing that 15% of $3 million should equal $450,000 rather than $250,000.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 18:20 Fund size limitationsElias educates Josh on venture capital fund mechanics, explaining that $30-50M seed funds are structurally unequipped to price traction-heavy post-seed rounds.
Josh holds their own ▶ 11:05 Phil calculates implied 8% marginPhil demonstrates sharp financial acumen by instantly calculating on the spot that $240k on $3M corresponds to an 8% margin rather than the claimed 15%.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Josh as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Josh pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Elias Stahl Pitches HILOS' On-Demand Footwear Model | 2 | 3 | 1 | 2 | Elias lays out the foundational vision of HILOS and on-demand shoe manufacturing. Investors ask clarifying questions regarding the multi-partner supply chain and 72-hour turnaround. | |
| Brand Partnerships, Unit Economics, and Product Quality | 4 | 3 | 1 | 3 | Victor probes the unit economics and the 15% passive margin structure on a $200 shoe. Elias explains why lower price points cannot work with current 3D printing tech. | |
| Revenue Projections and Financial Scrutiny | 7 | 2 | 3 | 7 | Phil rigorously interrogates Elias when Elias's projected profit of $250k contradicts his stated 15% margin on $3M revenue. Elias scrambles to explain product mix and development fees. | |
| Valuation Debate: Impact Multiple versus Software Multiple | 6 | 3 | 5 | 6 | Elias strongly rejects using revenue multiples for a seed-stage company, arguing the valuation reflects impact, upside, and an AWS-like infrastructure monopoly. | |
| Investor Deliberations and Unanimous Passes | 5 | 2 | 4 | 6 | The investors unanimously decline to invest due to high valuation, prompting Elias to retort that the company will not get cheaper next round. | |
| Post-Pitch Analysis and Fundraise Outcome | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | In a post-pitch debrief with Josh, Elias analyzes the outcome, claiming the investors were limited by their small fund sizes rather than fundamental flaws in HILOS. | |
| Generative AI Footwear Design and Future Vision | 3 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Josh and Elias have a relaxed, generative conversation discussing AI shoe design prompting and the long-term vision of on-demand consumer creation. |
Statements from this episode (17)
Stahl: 24 billion shoes are made yearly; 20% dumped in landfills
“We make twenty four billion shoes every year. One out of five goes straight to the landfill.”
Stahl: HILOS is raising $4M and has already closed $2M
“We've actually are right now in a four million dollar raise. We've already closed the first two, and so right now we're subscribing to the last two million of that round.”
Stahl: HILOS holds exclusive deal with the world's largest 3D printer
“We have incredible partners that the largest, most industrially scaled, three D printing partner in the world that we have an exclusive relationship with.”
HILOS supply chain network turns around on-demand footwear in 72 hours
“So the way that our supply chain works is we essentially have printing partners that maintain very shallow levels of inventories at assembly partners that are each around a certain product type. They're able to then Turn around things in 72 hours.”
HILOS signed four footwear brands within six months of initial launch
“Within six months of that launching, we signed another four brands, and we went to South by Southwest to showcase this new model of collaboration for the industry and won world's most innovative technology and best in show.”
HILOS takes 15% of brand unit cost at 100% gross margin
“15% of the unit cost for the brand. So if it's a hundred dollars, let's say, it would be 15 dollars. Of everything sold. That is a hundred percent margin because we didn't actually pay to fulfill that in any way.”
HILOS 'George' shoe showed no wear after a 300-mile test
“We sent the George on a 300 mile joyride, and it came out without a scratch. And a big reason for that is because we're using far more advanced materials, and we're using a completely different structure of build.”
HILOS projects $3M in revenue next year, $16M the following year
“Right now we're looking at three million in revenue next year from the brands we currently have signed and under contract, and we believe we have a very strong pathway to get to sixteen million the following year.”
Stahl: Revenue multiples are inappropriate for valuing seed-stage startups
“I think revenue multiples for a seed round is too early. That's more of a series A conversation.”
Stahl: HILOS operating profit margins will exceed Google and Amazon next year
“The, if you look at profit, we are, our operating profit by next year will be over. More profitable than Google or Amazon, because we don't fundamentally invest or hold the costs of the things that we fulfill for brands.”
Stahl: Exclusive supplier deals give HILOS huge leverage over partner brands
“We own the language by which they make the product. We have exclusive supplier relationships and brands are incredibly dependent on that and dependent on us, which allows us have a huge amount of leverage in that relationship.”
Stahl: Physical disruptors face 12-to-24-month lag between traction and revenue
“If you want to have impact on the physical world and you want to really Change the impact of these legacy industries. You have to, and that's what we're in this for, but it does mean that you're right. There's a 12, 1824 month period wherein you have a ton of …”
Muccio: HILOS oversubscribed its funding round to raise $5M
“Elias oversubscribed on their round, raising a total of five million.”
Muccio: HILOS recently recruited a former Nike executive to its team
“Hylos also brought on a few new team members, including an executive from Nike.”
Stahl: HILOS software cuts footwear product delivery from months to hours
“So the designer focuses on really new, interesting, creative textures and geometries, and our software is able to push them and empower them to think faster and broader and more creatively than before while delivering a product within minutes and hours instead…”