Nov 1, 2023 · 17m · the-pitch
"VCs Debate: Is This Recyclable Shower Curtain the Future of Circular Economy Home Products?"
Luke Barkley Young · 7m spoken Beck Bamberger · 1m spoken Josh Muccio · 1m spoken Howie Diamond · 1m spoken Al Bsharah · 1m spoken Jillian Manus · 1m spoken
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
Founder Luke Barkley Young pitches Outlines, a sustainable subscription service for recyclable shower curtains and home essentials, navigating investor skepticism around D2C economics to secure a $50,000 investment from Beck Bamberger.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Josh holds 12.4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Josh as informed peer 4.3 Guest teaching 3.0 Guest disagreement 2.7 Josh pushing back 5.2
speaking balance: gold is Josh, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 7:22 Luke dismantles Al's cloth curtain alternative
Luke directly counters Al Beshara's premise that fabric liners are greener, detailing how they are actually polyester coated in carcinogenic PFAS chemicals.
Hardest push from Josh ▶ 12:40 Jillian rejects the vision and suggests pivoting to SaaSJillian strongly rejects Luke's multi-step circular supply chain model as overly complicated and tells him his vision is off before passing on the deal.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 7:22 Luke educates investors on PFAS and microplastics in fabric curtainsLuke delivers detailed domain knowledge on durable water resistant coatings and microplastic runoff, leaving Al Beshara jokingly asking if his curtain is giving him cancer.
Josh holds their own ▶ 16:24 Josh challenges Howie over trivializing the subscriber milestoneJosh Muccio pushes back against Howie Diamond's dismissive claim that getting 5,000 subscribers is trivial, daring Howie to replicate it with a shower curtain.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Josh as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Josh pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Luke Barkley Young Pitches Outlines' Circular Model | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Segment 1 consists of Luke's opening pitch introducing Outlines, explaining the circular subscription model, recycling limitations for flexible plastics, and early traction metrics without investor interruption. | |
| Exploring Product Lineup, Manufacturing, and Unit Economics | 5 | 3 | 2 | 5 | Investors probe manufacturing logistics, recycling costs, and the high replenishment price point ($55 initial, $25 replenishment). Luke clarifies the product architecture and magnetic unhooking experience. | |
| Retention Metrics and the Fabric vs. Plastic Shower Curtain Debate | 4 | 9 | 6 | 6 | Al Beshara challenges the concept by advocating for washable cloth curtains. Luke decisively educates him, explaining that fabric curtains are polyester treated with carcinogenic PFAS chemicals and release microplastics. | |
| Evaluating D2C Marketing Strategy and Customer Acquisition | 6 | 2 | 3 | 7 | Investors question the viability of D2C customer acquisition in a hostile climate. Although Luke shares strong CAC metrics under $17, Howie and Al pass due to concerns over mainstream market adoption and scale. | |
| Long-Term Brand Vision and Jillian Manus's Departure | 5 | 3 | 3 | 8 | Luke outlines his vision of becoming a universal destination for replenishables. Jillian Manus strongly pushes back, arguing the model is overcomplicated and advising a pivot to SaaS logistics before dropping out. | |
| Beck Bamberger Offers $50K to Lead PR Strategy | 6 | 1 | 2 | 5 | Beck offers a $50K investment to drive consumer PR strategy, which Luke accepts at a $6M cap. Host Josh Muccio debriefs with the panel, challenging Howie's skepticism regarding the founder's 5,000 subscriber milestone. |
Statements from this episode (18)
Young: Only 6% of U.S. recycling bin items actually get recycled
“And many people know that recyclables in America, of everything we put into our recycling bins, only around six percent of them are actually recycled.”
Young: Outlines sold over 5,000 shower liners since launch
“Since we launched our first product in January last year, we sold over 5000 units of the shower liner.”
Young: 75% of Outlines buyers opt for a shower curtain subscription
“75% of our users subscribe to recurring deliveries at the point of purchase.”
Young: Outlines is raising $1M to launch five new products
“We're now raising a million dollars to launch five new products this year To grow our systems and plans with our existing users, but to also acquire new users.”
Barkley Young: Outlines pays about $1 per item for recycling
“So right now we're paying roughly a dollar per item to have it recycled.”
Young: At 10,000 pounds, recycling payouts will offset our shipping costs
“However, once we get to a quantity of shipments of 10,000 pounds and above, we'll probably start to get paid enough for that material that will offset just shipping it to the recycler.”
Barkley Young: Outlines charges $55 for shower sets and $25 refills
“Our initial set is a part including shipping is 55 dollars. The part that you're replenishing for the shower curtain is 25 dollars.”
Young: 88% of Outlines customers return their shower curtains for recycling
“So our trailing full participation in responsible replenishment, we call that, is 88%.”
Young: Fabric shower liners are coated with toxic PFAS forever chemicals
“The material you're talking about it isn't, it's not cloth. It's a polyester. It's covered in what's called a DWR, durable water resistant, which is made of a PFA, which is a highly carcinogenic forever chemical. And when you stand next to it in the shower, th…”
Young: Washing cloth shower curtains releases unfilterable microplastics into water systems
“But when you also wash that product, it releases microplastics into the washing machine that municipal water plants simply cannot get out. And that polyester shower liner will live in landfill just as long as a plastic shower liner.”
Young: Outlines' customer acquisition cost actually dropped post-iOS 14 update
“In fact, post the iOS update, our CAC actually reduced, and it's continued to stay stable this year. So we're still first purchase profitable.”
Young: Outlines' Customer Acquisition Cost on Paid Search Is Under $17
“I think our CAC on paid search right now is under 17 dollars, which is great.”
Young: Outlines is the top-rated shower liner on Wirecutter and Strategist
“So we're the number one shower liner across, like, strategist or wire cutter.”
Diamond: Outlines won't reach mainstream adoption due to its premium pricing
“I don't see the mainstream adoption for this product because the price is way too high and way too premium for me to get involved in this because I just think it's going to be a very, very small select people who care about the environmental impacts to get ove…”
Young: Outlines aims to become the Whole Foods of circular replenishable goods
“What we're really excited about is beginning to introduce third party product because we do such a good job of shipping to and taking back and recycling. And we know that our customers love subscribing from us. So I think Outlines should be like the destinatio…”
Manus: Outlines is overly complicated trying to do manufacturing and recycling
“I think that this is overly complicated. So you are designing, you're manufacturing, you're recovering, you're replenishing, you're recycling. It's a lot. And I would love to see you focus on one thing, or even build almost a SaaS product that's logistics for …”