Feb 12, 2021 · 48m · saastr
How to Build a Great Intern Program from Scratch | @shopify VP of Engineering Farhan Thawar
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In this masterclass and interactive Q&A, engineering leader Farhan Thawar delivers a practical blueprint for building, scaling, and managing high-performing internship programs that outcompete tech giants. He emphasizes the essential pillars of paid compensation, equal workplace status, mission-critical project ownership, pair programming, and proactive long-term talent conversion.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. How this is scored →
Jason as informed peer 0.3 Guest teaching 5.7 Guest disagreement 0.3 Jason pushing back 0.0
speaking balance: gold is Jason, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 25:45 Farhan's passionate stance on intern treatment
Farhan bluntly rejects bad industry habits, warning companies never to offload crappy work or separate snacks for interns.
Hardest push from Jason ▶ 33:52 Moderator reads audience confidentiality concernLindsay relays a direct attendee question probing whether interns present an inherent IP theft or competitor leakage risk.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 30:20 Farhan's advance signing bonus playbookFarhan educates attendees on how to lock in sophomore talent years ahead of graduation by paying immediate signing bonuses and integrating them into company channels.
Jason holds their own ▶ 39:07 Darshan shares Stanford group project recruiting successDarshan demonstrates firsthand expertise by sharing how sponsoring Stanford student projects yielded high-performing startup founders.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Jason as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Jason pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Defining Internships and Mandating Paid Placements | 0 | 7 | 1 | 0 | Farhan delivers an uninterrupted monologue presenting the core philosophy of why companies need internship programs and why unpaid placements are unacceptable. There is no host involvement or disagreement. | |
| Q&A on Giving Interns Real Work and Equal Status | 0 | 6 | 0 | 0 | Darshan asks an audience question about balancing intern eagerness against workplace frustration. Farhan advises treating interns identically to full-time staff without segregated perks or distinct email aliases. | |
| Understanding Intern Motivations and Career Aspirations | 0 | 6 | 0 | 0 | Farhan details intern motivations using Daniel Pink's framework, highlighting their unique needs for mentorship, community, and low-friction exploration. The monologue format continues without host intervention. | |
| Actionable Tactics for Recruiting Student Talent | 0 | 7 | 1 | 0 | Farhan shares unconventional recruiting hacks like emailing professors directly, hosting pizza sessions, and offering raffle prizes to collect resumes. The segment is a solo tutorial with practical playbooks. | |
| Streamlined Interviewing and Remote Onboarding Adaptations | 0 | 6 | 0 | 0 | Farhan addresses a chat question regarding pandemic adaptations, explaining the shift toward automated evaluations and robust virtual onboarding kits. The host does not intervene. | |
| Determining Cohort Sizes and Pair Programming Benefits | 0 | 7 | 1 | 0 | Farhan advocates for high intern-to-engineer ratios and pair programming models to maximize learning velocity. He admits to being an aggressive maverick who hires interns first before building out the supporting structure. | |
| Fair Compensation Standards and Meaningful Project Work | 0 | 6 | 1 | 0 | Farhan examines compensation data from the University of Waterloo and adamantly reiterates that interns should never perform free or trivial tasks. He strongly criticizes assigning low-value throwaway work. | |
| Cohort Community Building and Long-Term Conversion Strategies | 0 | 7 | 0 | 0 | Farhan breaks down retention mechanisms including rotating cohort swag, early advance signing bonuses, and maintaining persistent alumni channels. The presentation continues uninterrupted. | |
| Q&A on Project Confidentiality and Team Rotations | 0 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Farhan responds to audience inquiries regarding intellectual property confidentiality and managing project rotation schedules. He clarifies that confidentiality guidelines should match full-time employee policies. | |
| Q&A on University Partnerships and Hidden Talent Sourcing | 3 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Audience participants Raj and Darshan share company experiences sponsoring university group projects, and Farhan enthusiastically validates and expands on the strategy. It is a collaborative exchange between practitioners. | |
| Q&A on Performance Management, Compensation, and Dev Degree | 0 | 6 | 0 | 0 | Farhan fields audience questions regarding performance metrics, commission structures, and Shopify's Dev Degree work-integrated learning program. He explains why standard 30-60-90 reviews are far better predictors than interviews. | |
| Session Conclusion and Final Networking Remarks | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Lindsay and Farhan wrap up the presentation with final housekeeping remarks and contact information. There is no debate or pushback. |
Statements from this episode (16)
Startups can outcompete tech giants for interns without matching their pay
“No matter what company you're at, whether it's large or small, you are able to compete with some of the biggest companies in the world for interns and for talent in general. And it doesn't have to be That you have to pay the intern more.”
Robust internship programs make hiring experienced full-time employees significantly easier
“The other thing I found interesting is whenever I've had a really robust internship program, I find that it's easier to hire full times. And I think that's a combination of things, whether it's greater, a better sense of how to onboard, or even thinking throug…”
Interns should have the exact same standing and access as full-time employees
“You have to think of them as your full times, and if you think of them as your full times, you should be taking their suggestions and feedback. You should be unblocking them. They should have the same level of access as everybody else.”
Offering pair programming makes hiring tech interns significantly easier for startups
“We always had an easy easy opportunity to hire interns because interns always wanted a pair program because it's a great mentorship opportunity.”
Managers should encourage top interns to finish other internships before accepting offers
“I encourage people who I thought did a great job at my company, and I would give them a full-time offer to still finish their internships at other companies, because you want to make sure that you are getting that experience and you figure out, oh yeah, this r…”
Farhan Thawar once hired seven engineers on the spot at a fair
“I famously hired seven engineers at a career fair, like hired them, like not, didn't, like, just get their resumes or give them a t-shirt, actually hired them at the career fair, and so I think that there are amazing ways to reduce the friction to talking to p…”
Raffling prizes for resumes at info sessions rapidly drives intern applicant volume
“An easy way to get people to apply is have prizes, right? You could say, I would just say, oh, I'm giving out an Xbox, and here's I'm gonna pick a resume out of this pile, and literally I would just, you know, people would go, people would leave the seminar, p…”
Job interviews are notoriously poor predictors of actual candidate performance
“Interviews are not that good at predictor performance.
Actually, it's on the slide.
and it's really just a way for you to figure out if somebody might be a fit for you.
And so the shorter you can make that process, like I wouldn't recommend hours or hours lon…”
Early-stage startups can successfully scale with a one-to-one intern-to-engineer ratio
“So in startups, I like to think of like one-to-one when I was at extreme labs, like by the end there, I put in, you know, we have our ending stat there. We had about 65 interns out of 350 employees, but when we were growing, we had one intern to one engineer.”
University of Waterloo engineering intern pay scales up to $60 per hour
“I just went to the University of Waterloo website yesterday for this slide and said intern salaries. And they have it. So if you're ever wondering, like, how much should I pay my intern, right? Like this is a good frame of reference. And you can see the variab…”
Successful internship programs convert 70% to 80% of graduating interns to full-time
“I think in most companies I've seen like 70 to 80% conversion here in terms of like giving them an offer and then coming back.”
Companies should apply identical confidentiality standards to interns and full-time employees
“I think that you have to really treat interns, contractors, full-times with the same level of confidentiality as anything else in your business, which probably means just explaining it, right?”
Fewer than 3% of interns create confidentiality issues requiring company intervention
“I would say less than three percent of the people who you probably have to have an issue, and you have to probably just talk to those people.”
Emailing university professors for top student recommendations is an underutilized recruiting tactic
“Don't forget that professors know also what the best, like who the best students are. And so you're hitting on like a really good, like secret, meaning like not many people do this, but I've been doing it like my whole career, like email professors, Get, get t…”
Shopify's Dev Degree pays university tuition while students complete their internships
“Shopify has a, has an interesting program called dev degree. And what dev degree is, it's a program in conjunction with a few schools whereby you get your university paid for and you do your internships all at Shopify.”
Companies should skip standard interviews for returning interns seeking full-time roles
“When somebody who used to work for me or a previous intern wants to come back for a full-time job, we don't put them in the interview process, right? Cause Unless you really just got to figure out one dimension of them, like you might want to figure out, oh, t…”