StarZero All shows Try the podcast clipper →

Dec 13, 2024 · 39m · saastr

From Outbound to Channel Partnerships: Your Burning Sales Questions Answered by Jason Lemkin

Jason Lemkin · 33m spoken
0:00 / 0:00
▶ Watch on YouTube →

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this SaaStr Annual AMA session, founder Jason Lemkin breaks down essential B2B SaaS growth strategies, offering actionable guidance on revitalizing cold outbound sales, leveraging channel partnerships, maintaining focus past $1M ARR, and sequencing key executive hires.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Jason holds 94.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Jason as informed peer 6.6 Guest teaching 0.0 Guest disagreement 0.8 Jason pushing back 1.8
05100:0010:0020:0030:000:44–8:53 · Jason as informed peer 0/10 SaaStr Annual State of SaaS: Demographics, VC Trends, and Diversity This segment is an opening monologue and state of SaaS update delivered entirely by the host, Jason Lemkin, with no guest interaction.8:53–18:42 · Jason as informed peer 8/10 Revitalizing Cold Outbound: Crafting 10x Value-Driven Emails Victor asks an earnest question about early customer acquisition in the wake of declining classic outbound. Lemkin draws upon decades of operator and angel investing experience to lay out precise tactics for high-signal 10x cold emails.18:44–24:46 · Jason as informed peer 8/10 Scaling Beyond $1M ARR: Avoiding the Shiny Penny Trap An audience member inquires whether to pivot toward self-serve PLG at $1M ARR. Lemkin quickly steers him away from chasing shiny pennies, using his own historical compounding metrics from EchoSign to show why scaling enterprise from 50 to 100 accounts is the higher expected value move.24:49–33:22 · Jason as informed peer 9/10 The Channel Partnership Playbook: Building Defensible Go-To-Market Moats SPEAKER_01 prompts a discussion on channel partnerships, allowing Lemkin to dissect the partner go-to-market playbooks of Klaviyo, Shopify, HubSpot, and Gorgias with concrete data points.33:22–39:54 · Jason as informed peer 8/10 Executive Hiring Sequencing: Prioritizing Marketing, Sales, and Product VPs An audience member asks about executive hiring priority for a solo founder. Lemkin breaks down exact revenue milestones for hiring VP of Marketing, Sales, and Product, while highlighting exceptions for true 10x individual talent.0:44–8:53 · Guest teaching 0/10 SaaStr Annual State of SaaS: Demographics, VC Trends, and Diversity This segment is an opening monologue and state of SaaS update delivered entirely by the host, Jason Lemkin, with no guest interaction.8:53–18:42 · Guest teaching 0/10 Revitalizing Cold Outbound: Crafting 10x Value-Driven Emails Victor asks an earnest question about early customer acquisition in the wake of declining classic outbound. Lemkin draws upon decades of operator and angel investing experience to lay out precise tactics for high-signal 10x cold emails.18:44–24:46 · Guest teaching 0/10 Scaling Beyond $1M ARR: Avoiding the Shiny Penny Trap An audience member inquires whether to pivot toward self-serve PLG at $1M ARR. Lemkin quickly steers him away from chasing shiny pennies, using his own historical compounding metrics from EchoSign to show why scaling enterprise from 50 to 100 accounts is the higher expected value move.24:49–33:22 · Guest teaching 0/10 The Channel Partnership Playbook: Building Defensible Go-To-Market Moats SPEAKER_01 prompts a discussion on channel partnerships, allowing Lemkin to dissect the partner go-to-market playbooks of Klaviyo, Shopify, HubSpot, and Gorgias with concrete data points.33:22–39:54 · Guest teaching 0/10 Executive Hiring Sequencing: Prioritizing Marketing, Sales, and Product VPs An audience member asks about executive hiring priority for a solo founder. Lemkin breaks down exact revenue milestones for hiring VP of Marketing, Sales, and Product, while highlighting exceptions for true 10x individual talent.0:44–8:53 · Guest disagreement 0/10 SaaStr Annual State of SaaS: Demographics, VC Trends, and Diversity This segment is an opening monologue and state of SaaS update delivered entirely by the host, Jason Lemkin, with no guest interaction.8:53–18:42 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Revitalizing Cold Outbound: Crafting 10x Value-Driven Emails Victor asks an earnest question about early customer acquisition in the wake of declining classic outbound. Lemkin draws upon decades of operator and angel investing experience to lay out precise tactics for high-signal 10x cold emails.18:44–24:46 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Scaling Beyond $1M ARR: Avoiding the Shiny Penny Trap An audience member inquires whether to pivot toward self-serve PLG at $1M ARR. Lemkin quickly steers him away from chasing shiny pennies, using his own historical compounding metrics from EchoSign to show why scaling enterprise from 50 to 100 accounts is the higher expected value move.24:49–33:22 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Channel Partnership Playbook: Building Defensible Go-To-Market Moats SPEAKER_01 prompts a discussion on channel partnerships, allowing Lemkin to dissect the partner go-to-market playbooks of Klaviyo, Shopify, HubSpot, and Gorgias with concrete data points.33:22–39:54 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Executive Hiring Sequencing: Prioritizing Marketing, Sales, and Product VPs An audience member asks about executive hiring priority for a solo founder. Lemkin breaks down exact revenue milestones for hiring VP of Marketing, Sales, and Product, while highlighting exceptions for true 10x individual talent.0:44–8:53 · Jason pushing back 0/10 SaaStr Annual State of SaaS: Demographics, VC Trends, and Diversity This segment is an opening monologue and state of SaaS update delivered entirely by the host, Jason Lemkin, with no guest interaction.8:53–18:42 · Jason pushing back 2/10 Revitalizing Cold Outbound: Crafting 10x Value-Driven Emails Victor asks an earnest question about early customer acquisition in the wake of declining classic outbound. Lemkin draws upon decades of operator and angel investing experience to lay out precise tactics for high-signal 10x cold emails.18:44–24:46 · Jason pushing back 3/10 Scaling Beyond $1M ARR: Avoiding the Shiny Penny Trap An audience member inquires whether to pivot toward self-serve PLG at $1M ARR. Lemkin quickly steers him away from chasing shiny pennies, using his own historical compounding metrics from EchoSign to show why scaling enterprise from 50 to 100 accounts is the higher expected value move.24:49–33:22 · Jason pushing back 2/10 The Channel Partnership Playbook: Building Defensible Go-To-Market Moats SPEAKER_01 prompts a discussion on channel partnerships, allowing Lemkin to dissect the partner go-to-market playbooks of Klaviyo, Shopify, HubSpot, and Gorgias with concrete data points.33:22–39:54 · Jason pushing back 2/10 Executive Hiring Sequencing: Prioritizing Marketing, Sales, and Product VPs An audience member asks about executive hiring priority for a solo founder. Lemkin breaks down exact revenue milestones for hiring VP of Marketing, Sales, and Product, while highlighting exceptions for true 10x individual talent.

speaking balance: gold is Jason, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Jason 98.3% · guest 1.7%0:00 · Jason 98.3% · guest 1.7%3:00 · Jason 100% · guest 0%3:00 · Jason 100% · guest 0%6:00 · Jason 96.9% · guest 3.1%6:00 · Jason 96.9% · guest 3.1%9:00 · Jason 92.1% · guest 7.9%9:00 · Jason 92.1% · guest 7.9%12:00 · Jason 100% · guest 0%12:00 · Jason 100% · guest 0%15:00 · Jason 100% · guest 0%15:00 · Jason 100% · guest 0%18:00 · Jason 67.9% · guest 32.1%18:00 · Jason 67.9% · guest 32.1%21:00 · Jason 100% · guest 0%21:00 · Jason 100% · guest 0%24:00 · Jason 83.2% · guest 16.8%24:00 · Jason 83.2% · guest 16.8%27:00 · Jason 100% · guest 0%27:00 · Jason 100% · guest 0%30:00 · Jason 100% · guest 0%30:00 · Jason 100% · guest 0%33:00 · Jason 91.6% · guest 8.4%33:00 · Jason 91.6% · guest 8.4%36:00 · Jason 100% · guest 0%36:00 · Jason 100% · guest 0%39:00 · Jason 100% · guest 0%39:00 · Jason 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 9:08 Victor asks multiple rapid questions

In a completely collaborative AMA session, Victor gently pushes the boundary by trying to squeeze in a second question on remote work after asking about outbound sales.

 Hardest push from Jason ▶ 19:40 Jason rejects abandoning the enterprise ICP for PLG

Lemkin directly pushes back on the premise that slowing enterprise sales justifies pivoting to a broad PLG motion, telling the founder to double down on getting from 50 to 100 customers instead.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 18:49 Audience member shares enterprise document editor metrics

The audience member provides ground-truth context about reaching $1M ARR with 25-50 enterprise accounts and dev team burnout, setting up the foundation for the discussion.

 Jason holds their own ▶ 26:00 Jason details agency lock-in dynamics in SMB ecosystems

Lemkin showcases deep domain expertise by contrasting Zendesk's horizontal strategy against Gorgias's focused boots-on-the-ground agency distribution moat.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicJason as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementJason pushing backWhy
SaaStr Annual State of SaaS: Demographics, VC Trends, and Diversity 0000 This segment is an opening monologue and state of SaaS update delivered entirely by the host, Jason Lemkin, with no guest interaction.
Revitalizing Cold Outbound: Crafting 10x Value-Driven Emails 8012 Victor asks an earnest question about early customer acquisition in the wake of declining classic outbound. Lemkin draws upon decades of operator and angel investing experience to lay out precise tactics for high-signal 10x cold emails.
Scaling Beyond $1M ARR: Avoiding the Shiny Penny Trap 8013 An audience member inquires whether to pivot toward self-serve PLG at $1M ARR. Lemkin quickly steers him away from chasing shiny pennies, using his own historical compounding metrics from EchoSign to show why scaling enterprise from 50 to 100 accounts is the higher expected value move.
The Channel Partnership Playbook: Building Defensible Go-To-Market Moats 9012 SPEAKER_01 prompts a discussion on channel partnerships, allowing Lemkin to dissect the partner go-to-market playbooks of Klaviyo, Shopify, HubSpot, and Gorgias with concrete data points.
Executive Hiring Sequencing: Prioritizing Marketing, Sales, and Product VPs 8012 An audience member asks about executive hiring priority for a solo founder. Lemkin breaks down exact revenue milestones for hiring VP of Marketing, Sales, and Product, while highlighting exceptions for true 10x individual talent.

Statements from this episode (15)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Lemkin: SaaStr Annual CEO and founder attendance increased by 50%
“CEOs and founders up about 150% of last year.”
Jason Lemkin Dec 13, 2024 ▶ 2:24
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Lemkin: VC attendance at SaaStr Annual dropped 40% year-over-year
“VCs are about 60% of last year. About 60%.”
Jason Lemkin Dec 13, 2024 ▶ 3:02
Opinion
Lemkin: Many VCs lack capital to invest and struggle to raise new funds
“A lot of folks in venture, even though it doesn't look like it, they're, they don't have money to invest. They're struggling to raise another fund. They're sitting on the sidelines. They've slowed it down. They're worried.”
Jason Lemkin Dec 13, 2024 ▶ 3:51
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Lemkin: SaaStr inclusion program applicants fell 30% year-over-year
“We put a lot of money and energy into our inclusion program. We had about 30% less takers than last year. 30%.”
Jason Lemkin Dec 13, 2024 ▶ 5:25
Opinion
Lemkin: Tech cares less about inclusion than it did two years ago
“I think overall tech cares less about inclusion and being representative than it did two years ago.”
Jason Lemkin Dec 13, 2024 ▶ 6:00
Disclosure
Lemkin: HubSpot's Dharmesh Shah alone offered to fund SaaStr's inclusion program
“I asked about 20 CEOs and founders and CTOs in tech to help us with the inclusion program this year. Okay. You know how many offered to help one Dharmesh Shah. From HubSpot said he would fund the entire thing next year.”
Jason Lemkin Dec 13, 2024 ▶ 8:02
Insight
Lemkin: Nobody needs an early-stage SaaS product without a 10x feature
“No one needs your product unless you have a 10 X feature.”
Jason Lemkin Dec 13, 2024 ▶ 12:43
Prediction Open · timeframe Dec 2027
Lemkin: Algolia will conduct an IPO
“I did Algolia, which is gonna IPO.”
Jason Lemkin Dec 13, 2024 ▶ 16:37
Insight
Lemkin: Chasing 'shiny pennies' is the biggest mistake from $1M to $10M ARR
“The biggest mistake folks make on the journey from one to 10 is the shiny penny. Is finding, I want something that's easier. This is too hard. What if we had a self-serve motion? What if we did this? What if we did that?”
Jason Lemkin Dec 13, 2024 ▶ 19:55
Assertion Contradicted
Lemkin: Klaviyo generates 40% of its $1B revenue via agencies and partners
“Clayville gets 40% of its one billion in revenue through agencies and partners.”
Jason Lemkin Dec 13, 2024 ▶ 25:34
Assertion Supported
Lemkin: Over 40% of HubSpot revenue comes from partner agencies
“HubSpot over 40% of the revenue comes from partners. Agencies that deploy HubSpot.”
Jason Lemkin Dec 13, 2024 ▶ 25:55
Insight
Lemkin: SMB agencies standardize on one platform despite better competing products
“What they don't realize with SMBs is that like agencies and dev shops, They just pick one. They don't have time to learn for email marketing partners. They don't care if something's better than Shopify. I don't care. Shopify is number one.”
Jason Lemkin Dec 13, 2024 ▶ 26:57
Disclosure
Lemkin: Customer support platform Gorgias is approaching $100M ARR
“I invested in a company called Gorgias, which is like Klaviyo for contact center. It's coming up a hundred million.”
Jason Lemkin Dec 13, 2024 ▶ 29:06
Insight
Lemkin: Startups should hire VPs in sequence: Marketing, Sales, then Product
“The right sequence is VP marketing, VP sales, VP of product.”
Jason Lemkin Dec 13, 2024 ▶ 34:04
Insight
Lemkin: Hiring a sales VP before two reps hit quota is risky
“Hire a VP of sales before you have two reps hitting quota, hyper risky. And so typically that doesn't happen between one and two million in revenue.”
Jason Lemkin Dec 13, 2024 ▶ 36:11
Made with StarZero

Turn any episode into a week of clips.

This entire site, over 400 episodes transcribed, diarized, checked and made playable, runs on the StarZero media pipeline. Drop in your own episode and the podcast clipper finds the moments worth sharing, cuts them, captions them, and reframes them for every feed.

Try the podcast clipper Learn more