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Jun 23, 2023 · 49m · more-or-less

#3: Mr. Beast's burger bust and will M&A ever return? · More or Less Podcast

Sam Lessin · 16m spoken Jessica Lessin · 12m spoken Dave Morin · 8m spoken Brit Morin · 6m spoken
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In this episode of the More or Less Podcast, hosts Jessica Lessin, Sam Lessin, Brit Morin, and Dave Morin examine the cooling tech M&A landscape driven by regulatory antitrust scrutiny and evaluate new monetization models across the creator economy. Blending venture capital critique with cultural insights, the panel also explores Pharrell's high-fashion debut, weekly technology discoveries, and the enduring resilience of Silicon Valley.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The hosts hold 99.6% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

The hosts as informed peer 5.6 Guest teaching 0.6 Guest disagreement 0.2 The hosts pushing back 1.4
05100:0015:0030:0045:000:00–4:07 · The hosts as informed peer 2/10 Podcast Welcome, Swearing Feedback, and Holiday Banter The hosts open the episode with lighthearted banter regarding podcast feedback on swearing and light confusion about Juneteenth. The guest only offers friendly, passive agreements.4:07–24:48 · The hosts as informed peer 8/10 Tech Antitrust Pressures and the Cooling M&A Landscape The hosts demonstrate deep sector knowledge by detailing ongoing FTC and DOJ antitrust investigations, venture fund economics, and the death of acqui-hires. The guest remains largely silent, only chiming in to express mild skepticism about startup talent acquisitions.24:48–37:14 · The hosts as informed peer 7/10 MrBeast Burger Fall and Investing Directly in Creators The hosts debate creator financing mechanisms, comparing holding company investments to single-product ventures like MrBeast Burger and Feastables. The guest chimes in exclusively with brief prompts and approving remarks.37:14–41:44 · The hosts as informed peer 5/10 Pharrell's LVMH Debut and the Minecraft Runway Aesthetic The group discusses Pharrell Williams' debut runway collection for Louis Vuitton and its visual similarities to Minecraft. The guest agrees with the observations and notes Pharrell's background as a music producer.41:44–47:12 · The hosts as informed peer 6/10 Weekly Learnings: From Swifties to Computational Sound The hosts present weekly learnings ranging from Taylor Swift's tour economy to historical tech valuations and computational outdoor sound systems. The guest joins in answering Meta's founding anniversary and responds amiably.0:00–4:07 · Guest teaching 0/10 Podcast Welcome, Swearing Feedback, and Holiday Banter The hosts open the episode with lighthearted banter regarding podcast feedback on swearing and light confusion about Juneteenth. The guest only offers friendly, passive agreements.4:07–24:48 · Guest teaching 1/10 Tech Antitrust Pressures and the Cooling M&A Landscape The hosts demonstrate deep sector knowledge by detailing ongoing FTC and DOJ antitrust investigations, venture fund economics, and the death of acqui-hires. The guest remains largely silent, only chiming in to express mild skepticism about startup talent acquisitions.24:48–37:14 · Guest teaching 0/10 MrBeast Burger Fall and Investing Directly in Creators The hosts debate creator financing mechanisms, comparing holding company investments to single-product ventures like MrBeast Burger and Feastables. The guest chimes in exclusively with brief prompts and approving remarks.37:14–41:44 · Guest teaching 1/10 Pharrell's LVMH Debut and the Minecraft Runway Aesthetic The group discusses Pharrell Williams' debut runway collection for Louis Vuitton and its visual similarities to Minecraft. The guest agrees with the observations and notes Pharrell's background as a music producer.41:44–47:12 · Guest teaching 1/10 Weekly Learnings: From Swifties to Computational Sound The hosts present weekly learnings ranging from Taylor Swift's tour economy to historical tech valuations and computational outdoor sound systems. The guest joins in answering Meta's founding anniversary and responds amiably.0:00–4:07 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Podcast Welcome, Swearing Feedback, and Holiday Banter The hosts open the episode with lighthearted banter regarding podcast feedback on swearing and light confusion about Juneteenth. The guest only offers friendly, passive agreements.4:07–24:48 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Tech Antitrust Pressures and the Cooling M&A Landscape The hosts demonstrate deep sector knowledge by detailing ongoing FTC and DOJ antitrust investigations, venture fund economics, and the death of acqui-hires. The guest remains largely silent, only chiming in to express mild skepticism about startup talent acquisitions.24:48–37:14 · Guest disagreement 0/10 MrBeast Burger Fall and Investing Directly in Creators The hosts debate creator financing mechanisms, comparing holding company investments to single-product ventures like MrBeast Burger and Feastables. The guest chimes in exclusively with brief prompts and approving remarks.37:14–41:44 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Pharrell's LVMH Debut and the Minecraft Runway Aesthetic The group discusses Pharrell Williams' debut runway collection for Louis Vuitton and its visual similarities to Minecraft. The guest agrees with the observations and notes Pharrell's background as a music producer.41:44–47:12 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Weekly Learnings: From Swifties to Computational Sound The hosts present weekly learnings ranging from Taylor Swift's tour economy to historical tech valuations and computational outdoor sound systems. The guest joins in answering Meta's founding anniversary and responds amiably.0:00–4:07 · The hosts pushing back 1/10 Podcast Welcome, Swearing Feedback, and Holiday Banter The hosts open the episode with lighthearted banter regarding podcast feedback on swearing and light confusion about Juneteenth. The guest only offers friendly, passive agreements.4:07–24:48 · The hosts pushing back 3/10 Tech Antitrust Pressures and the Cooling M&A Landscape The hosts demonstrate deep sector knowledge by detailing ongoing FTC and DOJ antitrust investigations, venture fund economics, and the death of acqui-hires. The guest remains largely silent, only chiming in to express mild skepticism about startup talent acquisitions.24:48–37:14 · The hosts pushing back 1/10 MrBeast Burger Fall and Investing Directly in Creators The hosts debate creator financing mechanisms, comparing holding company investments to single-product ventures like MrBeast Burger and Feastables. The guest chimes in exclusively with brief prompts and approving remarks.37:14–41:44 · The hosts pushing back 1/10 Pharrell's LVMH Debut and the Minecraft Runway Aesthetic The group discusses Pharrell Williams' debut runway collection for Louis Vuitton and its visual similarities to Minecraft. The guest agrees with the observations and notes Pharrell's background as a music producer.41:44–47:12 · The hosts pushing back 1/10 Weekly Learnings: From Swifties to Computational Sound The hosts present weekly learnings ranging from Taylor Swift's tour economy to historical tech valuations and computational outdoor sound systems. The guest joins in answering Meta's founding anniversary and responds amiably.

speaking balance: gold is the hosts, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · the hosts 99% · guest 1%0:00 · the hosts 99% · guest 1%3:00 · the hosts 99.9% · guest 0.1%3:00 · the hosts 99.9% · guest 0.1%6:00 · the hosts 99.6% · guest 0.4%6:00 · the hosts 99.6% · guest 0.4%9:00 · the hosts 100% · guest 0%9:00 · the hosts 100% · guest 0%12:00 · the hosts 100% · guest 0%12:00 · the hosts 100% · guest 0%15:00 · the hosts 100% · guest 0%15:00 · the hosts 100% · guest 0%18:00 · the hosts 99.8% · guest 0.2%18:00 · the hosts 99.8% · guest 0.2%21:00 · the hosts 100% · guest 0%21:00 · the hosts 100% · guest 0%24:00 · the hosts 99.2% · guest 0.8%24:00 · the hosts 99.2% · guest 0.8%27:00 · the hosts 100% · guest 0%27:00 · the hosts 100% · guest 0%30:00 · the hosts 98.7% · guest 1.3%30:00 · the hosts 98.7% · guest 1.3%33:00 · the hosts 100% · guest 0%33:00 · the hosts 100% · guest 0%36:00 · the hosts 98.3% · guest 1.7%36:00 · the hosts 98.3% · guest 1.7%39:00 · the hosts 99.4% · guest 0.6%39:00 · the hosts 99.4% · guest 0.6%42:00 · the hosts 99.5% · guest 0.5%42:00 · the hosts 99.5% · guest 0.5%45:00 · the hosts 99.4% · guest 0.6%45:00 · the hosts 99.4% · guest 0.6%48:00 · the hosts 99.7% · guest 0.3%48:00 · the hosts 99.7% · guest 0.3%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 23:20 Guest Doubts Startup Acqui-hire Likelihood

The guest briefly interrupts Dave's point about acquiring startup talent to contend that big tech firms are unlikely to buy those startups.

 Hardest push from the hosts ▶ 11:35 Sam Dismisses Non-Tech Acquirers

Sam Lessin forcefully rejects Brit's premise that legacy non-tech companies will acquire AI startups, ridiculing the economic viability of selling to firms like Safeway.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 44:54 Correcting Meta's Company Age

When Jessica mistakenly suggests Meta is turning fifteen, both the guest and Sam immediately correct her that the company is turning twenty.

 The host holds their own ▶ 5:12 Jessica Details Multi-Front Antitrust Actions

Jessica Lessin demonstrates commanding knowledge of regulatory affairs by synthesizing FTC actions against Amazon and Meta, DOJ cases against Google, and EU scrutiny on Adobe's Figma deal.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicThe hosts as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementThe hosts pushing backWhy
Podcast Welcome, Swearing Feedback, and Holiday Banter 2001 The hosts open the episode with lighthearted banter regarding podcast feedback on swearing and light confusion about Juneteenth. The guest only offers friendly, passive agreements.
Tech Antitrust Pressures and the Cooling M&A Landscape 8113 The hosts demonstrate deep sector knowledge by detailing ongoing FTC and DOJ antitrust investigations, venture fund economics, and the death of acqui-hires. The guest remains largely silent, only chiming in to express mild skepticism about startup talent acquisitions.
MrBeast Burger Fall and Investing Directly in Creators 7001 The hosts debate creator financing mechanisms, comparing holding company investments to single-product ventures like MrBeast Burger and Feastables. The guest chimes in exclusively with brief prompts and approving remarks.
Pharrell's LVMH Debut and the Minecraft Runway Aesthetic 5101 The group discusses Pharrell Williams' debut runway collection for Louis Vuitton and its visual similarities to Minecraft. The guest agrees with the observations and notes Pharrell's background as a music producer.
Weekly Learnings: From Swifties to Computational Sound 6101 The hosts present weekly learnings ranging from Taylor Swift's tour economy to historical tech valuations and computational outdoor sound systems. The guest joins in answering Meta's founding anniversary and responds amiably.

Statements from this episode (9)

Prediction Didn’t hold up
Sam Lessin: Adobe's Figma acquisition will likely close despite scrutiny
“And it probably gets done, and even doesn't get done, whatever. Like, I don't think it really impacts the early stage market.”
Sam Lessin Jun 23, 2023 ▶ 9:29
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Sam Lessin: The acqui-hire market is dead and never coming back
“What it is about is like the aqua higher market is dead and not coming back and the middle stuff doesn't get acquired. So basically as a seed investor, you now have to actually play for real wins. You can't be like, ah, it'll probably work. But if it doesn't, …”
Sam Lessin Jun 23, 2023 ▶ 9:53
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Sam Lessin: Big tech will win AI and most startups will die
“I think the whole AI space is gonna be a very YOLO space, where, like, almost everyone dies, and, like, the big companies win almost everything, and there's gonna be some exception. Someone's gonna make a fucking fortune somewhere, that's gonna be super hard t…”
Sam Lessin Jun 23, 2023 ▶ 12:39
Disclosure
Dave Morin: Slow Ventures is currently returning cash distributions to LPs
“Slow is doing distributions.”
Dave Morin Jun 23, 2023 ▶ 14:40
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Jessica Lessin: We will see attempted roll-ups of struggling creator companies
“I think we're going to see a lot of attempted, like, roll-ups of similar companies that kind of, like, aren't strong enough to themselves be an acquisition target or an IPO candidate. I think we'll see a lot of that in our next topic, so this might seg to, lik…”
Jessica Lessin Jun 23, 2023 ▶ 20:50
Opinion
Dave Morin: Exuberance around AI far exceeds current technological capability
“I also think that people's exuberance around this is far exceeding what is possible with the technology today, and there is a theoretical future where your ability to create a lot more software with the same number of software engineers that you have today is …”
Dave Morin Jun 23, 2023 ▶ 22:04
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Dave Morin: Businesses will need to acquire AI startup teams
“There's going to be a need to acquire teams and companies that know how to do this stuff in order to improve these operating businesses.”
Dave Morin Jun 23, 2023 ▶ 23:02
Disclosure
Sam Lessin: Slow Ventures backs creators using personal equity contracts
“I mean, we've financed several, we've been set, financed several at SLO, several creators this way and we can get into that and things like that.”
Sam Lessin Jun 23, 2023 ▶ 25:27
Insight
Sam Lessin: Investors should back creator holdcos, not single projects
“Finance the Hold Co. Finance the creator holistically. Do not finance single projects of the creator because for two reasons. It's bad for the creators and it's bad for you.”
Sam Lessin Jun 23, 2023 ▶ 26:44
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