The Exchanges

Q just how much of what we talk about applies to kids, partners, co-workers, and ourselves. Stick around at the end for my reflections. It's time to listen and learn. Let's start with a common term that we use as adults, uh, and as adults we use with our kids, but I don't know if I, I have a, a really good understanding of it, which is what is a boundary?

A So here's how I define a boundary, and I define it this way because then it's something I can actually assess, and I can know if I'm setting one or not. So to me, a boundary is something we tell someone else we will do, and it requires the other person to do nothing. And so the reason I really, really like that definition is because we can then afterwards say, okay, well, the thing I did, did I tell someone what I will do? And does it require the other person to do nothing? And almost always we say, no, like I actually kind of was asking my kid to clean up, you know, the clothes on their floor, which is something we all have to do. I would say that's a request. We make requests of our kids all the time, but learning to really differentiate a request from a boundary is Is critical, and it saves us from the frustration and the cycle of, my kid doesn't respect my boundary, or this person doesn't respect my boundary, and to me, the way I think about boundaries is, someone kind of, quote, might not respect my boundary, but if I am setting a boundary that is dependent on what I'm doing, and it is not at all dependent on what someone else does, then I really retain a lot of power, and I really like that perspective.

AI assessment note: “a boundary is something we tell someone else we will do”

Q have and how we, the stories we tell ourselves and what are the common ways that we sort of Self-sabotage or get in our own way with these stories that we're telling ourselves, and we're not being kind to ourselves, and we're not being gentle, and, and that has all of these other sort of implications, like how can I treat you nicely if I don't even treat myself nicely?

A I mean, there's so many examples of that, right? And I think most of us, we can get into the causes, but most of us have learned to wire struggles next to blame. They're like very, very close in our circuitry, and I say blame because it's, it's often a combination of other blame and self-blame, right? I think blame is often a two-way street, like some of us maybe, you know, specialize more in self-blame, some of us in other blame, but usually it's a seesaw, like it's, you know, and so when something's hard or something doesn't go our way, right, um, maybe, maybe I yelled at my kid, right, and then I, all of a sudden, I'm like, I'm a monster. I'm the worst parent. I messed up my kid forever, right? It's just like huge spiral, or I did a presentation at work, And my boss said something that, like, I don't know if it was critical, but it was kind of ambiguous, and I leave, and I'm like, my boss thinks I'm so stupid, and like, oh my goodness, I'm gonna get fired, and we just, like you said, we start telling ourselves stories, and then those stories, like, start to influence, of course, they influence how we feel, they influence then the next action we take that usually is just kind of further reifying that story, or really that interpretation, and we can really get off to the races, right? Um, And another image I want to share, right, because I think this is really one of my favori…

AI assessment note: “most of us have learned to wire struggles next to blame”

Q have and how we, the stories we tell ourselves and what are the common ways that we sort of Self-sabotage or get in our own way with these stories that we're telling ourselves, and we're not being kind to ourselves, and we're not being gentle, and, and that has all of these other sort of implications, like how can I treat you nicely if I don't even treat myself nicely?

A I mean, there's so many examples of that, right? And I think most of us, we can get into the causes, but most of us have learned to wire struggles next to blame. They're like very, very close in our circuitry, and I say blame because it's, it's often a combination of other blame and self-blame, right? I think blame is often a two-way street, like some of us maybe, you know, specialize more in self-blame, some of us in other blame, but usually it's a seesaw, like it's, you know, and so when something's hard or something doesn't go our way, right, um, maybe, maybe I yelled at my kid, right, and then I, all of a sudden, I'm like, I'm a monster. I'm the worst parent. I messed up my kid forever, right? It's just like huge spiral, or I did a presentation at work, And my boss said something that, like, I don't know if it was critical, but it was kind of ambiguous, and I leave, and I'm like, my boss thinks I'm so stupid, and like, oh my goodness, I'm gonna get fired, and we just, like you said, we start telling ourselves stories, and then those stories, like, start to influence, of course, they influence how we feel, they influence then the next action we take that usually is just kind of further reifying that story, or really that interpretation, and we can really get off to the races, right? Um, And another image I want to share, right, because I think this is really one of my favori…

AI assessment note: “most of us have learned to wire struggles next to blame”

Q sort of basically you're saying, uh, I'm not going to be defined by this behavior. I'm not going to let that define who I am, even though I can, they can both be true, right? I did this thing. I don't want to be the person who does that type of thing, and yet I did it, and yet it doesn't have to define who I am or my future.

A That's exactly right. And then you've kind of, like, I do think about that. You've, like, re-accessed this thing inside you. Like, I'm kind of, I'm still, like, I haven't lost that good insideness. Now I don't need my kid to find it for me. Now I don't need them to validate it. That's, you know, not the point of a repair. That is the opposite. And now I can actually go and do a true repair with my kid. And to me, a repair, you know, I don't think there's an exact formula, but, like, to some degree, you name what happened, you take responsibility, and And you state what you would do differently the next time. I think, I think especially the, I think all those components are pretty important. So I might say, Hey, um, I'm thinking about yelling at you when you were, you know, playing video games earlier. The reason I want to name it specifically, again, is I always think that kids have the tendency to self-doubt, just to, again, make themselves feel better, and I always want my kids to go into adulthood being like, the things I see and the things I notice really are true, and so I think just, like, validating that when I yelled at you when you were playing video games is a way of my son being like, okay, I didn't make that up, like, that did happen. Um, I'm really sorry, and to me this line matters, and it's controversial, so I want to talk about it with you. It's never your fault…

AI assessment note: “That's exactly right. And then you've kind of, like, I do think about that.”

Q Uh, but there's nothing wrong with them, right?

A Yeah, and, you know, I think there's so much more there, too. Like, my son probably doesn't care about his towel on the floor, and I don't know, is something so bad gonna happen if his towel's on the floor? It's probably not. Like, I don't think the world's gonna end. I don't think his, you know, room is gonna be ruined. It just is my preference, and so, really, we're saying, well, Why would my kid start caring about something he doesn't care about? Um, and his mom does care about. And that actually has everything to do with just kind of the strength of our relationship in that moment. And, you know, it's kind of why any of us do things we don't want to do, but other people care about. It's because we just feel close to them, and like, we like, you know, um, taking care of their needs sometimes, right? And so, so much of that, and approaching a teen in that, like, hey, I respect you. Like, here's the situation. Let's think through it together. That's the only way you're going to get to a productive solution anyway, because teenagers inherently, they, they don't care about their towel on the floor. They don't care about their messy room. They don't care about, you know, being on their phones longer than we want them to be. And so the status of our relationship with our kids and our partner, um, it's really core to like everything.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, and, you know, I think there's so much more there, too.”

Q Is it the same for relationships too? In terms of like what gets remembered, it's the story we tell ourself about that moment.

A Well, I think, you know, there's a lot of science on this now that, like, right, memory isn't events, it's events and every other time you've remembered the event. To me, that's the best way to think about it, because it actually speaks to why therapy is powerful for people, right? Like, you don't change the events of your childhood, but by remembering them in a different way in the context of a safer relationship, actually your memory changes. Your memories literally change. And so if you go back to, like, you've yelled at your kid, you don't feel good, Your kid's alone in their room. You don't want them to engage in self-blame, self-doubt, right? You don't want that. Not only that, to me, like, I often really, I feel like I'm a magician when I go repair with my kid. I'm like, oh my goodness, what happens next after the yell? Is going to have the most impact on what you end up encoding about the event. Like, if I can go in and do a true repair, you're gonna, you're not gonna, quote, be messed up by that. You're gonna learn that wasn't your fault. You're actually gonna watch an adult take responsibility for something that didn't feel good to them. You're gonna learn that after hard moments can be new understanding and people kind of working on themselves, like, What's a better lesson to my kid than that? It's like the most, that's why I say it's the most amazing opportunity. An…

AI assessment note: “memory isn't events, it's events and every other time you've remembered the event.”

Q thing now that they're basically in high school, uh, much to their dismay, right? This is like, and you were talking and you were like, they have to be away from their parents. They have to get this time away. And so when they come home from school, it's like, I'm there. And is that a good thing or a bad thing? Or like, how do you think about that?

A I mean, I, I don't think it's a good thing or a bad thing. First of all, they're, they're away from you. They're in school. They have their whole world, you know? Um, and so I think that's a lot of the ways they start to explore. And, and kids also, by the way, they explore in their thoughts. They explore by, you know, engaging and listening to music that their parents hate or, you know, entertaining ideas or, right? So it's not, doesn't just have to be physical separation. I feel, I feel mixed about a parent who's always there. First of all, parents were like, I'm at work. I'm not there. Am I messing up my kids? No. I frankly, you know, I'm often at my office, you know, when my kids come home, so there's not one right way. You know, I think it's a dance, you know, and I think about this a lot with my own childhood, and I've talked about this a lot with my mom, um, because we mom in very different ways. Like, you know, I do now, and she did then. Um, she was always there. Like, I feel like she was someone who was always there, right? And like, down to, I remember days in, like, middle school or high school, even when I was older, I was like, oh, I forgot the lunch I wanted at home. And she'd be like, I am driving it to you right now. You know, like, it was just always there. And one of the things we reflected on a lot together, and it actually kind of relates to confidence, so …

AI assessment note: “I don't think it's a good thing or a bad thing.”

Q Which is a very human sort of need, right?

A And I think, though, we know also from so much research how much teens, like, have, find so much comfort when their kid, when their parents are protecting them. They don't gratify you. Like, by the way, if I said this thing, which is my, about the phone thing, like, my son, even if I deliver it the way, he's not gonna be like, mom, you are such a sturdy leader, and I feel so taken care of by you. I just want to tell you that. No. No. He would not. That would be crazy town. My son, my son too would be like, that's not fair, and all my friends do, and you're saying, you know, trust me. Oh, are you saying you don't trust me? That, I'd be like, sweetie, this is not about trust. This is actually just about me making a decision that I know is the right one. That's really all it's about. I think this also relates to something we aren't taught, and therefore don't expect as parents, that two things that are totally independent is us making a good decision as a parent, And our kid having a big emotional reaction. They're both equally true and equally valid. We kind of fool ourselves into thinking, like, if I make an amazing decision as a parent, my kid's gonna be like, that sounds good, you know? But we also do the opposite, is that when we see our kid be very mad at us, we think it means we made a bad decision. And to me, the idea of, like, two things are true, I'm allowed to make deci…

AI assessment note: “we know also from so much research how much teens, like, have, find so much comfort”

Q What do I do in the, am I, am I crazy?

A No, you're zero percent crazy, and so much of this resonates with me, too, and I can get, like, this So there's a couple things that you said that I think we need to, like, you know, not, like, break down, but, like, poke around. That's what I would say. So first of all, most of us, when we're married, like, right, or partnered, whatever we are, like, the way we react to our spouse when they bring us up something they're feeling is, we do, we get very, like, kind of egocentric. I do this, too, where it's like, well, I wouldn't feel that way. Like, right? And I think most fights are Partners get in, are kind of, they're both saying to the other person, why can't you be more like me? And then I was like, well, why can't you be more like me? Why can't you be more like me? Right? We all find our partners. Inherently, we've attracted them because of all the ways they're kind of different from us, and then over time, we become a little bit repelled by those exact same things. That's like marriage, right? And so those different, um, those differences, I think, are at the core, right? And so I actually think this relates to that feeling bench a lot, right? So Your partner is coming to you, essentially saying, I don't know, I'm going to make up a situation. Tell me if, like, it's close enough. Like, you didn't, you didn't text me and tell me that you weren't going to stop at the store, …

AI assessment note: “No, you're zero percent crazy, and so much of this resonates with me, too”

Q Is it different, or where is it different when it comes to repairing with a partner or spouse?

A Great question. I think it's both different, and it feels totally different, and we all, me included, can get into such a state of willfulness instead of willingness, you know, with our partners. Um, you know, I think, I think it's the same thing. It's like you're taking responsibility for what you did. You're owning your side of the equation. You know, I think a lot of us, let's say you yell at your partner, it's easy to be like, well, if you didn't do this thing, you know, or, you know, if you had said this instead, I wouldn't have reacted that way, right? But at the end of the day, we own our reactions, and we're responsible for You know?

AI assessment note: “I think it's both different, and it feels totally different”

Q Parenting teens is tricky. I'm just, what are the indications that you have a really strong relationship with your teen, and what are the indications that it's going the wrong way, and you should probably intervene before it gets really bad?

A That's a good question. You know, my, my first reaction, like, the loudest thing in my mind, I think a lot of parents have a sense of, like, how they're Like, they, they just have, like, an inherent sense of, like, how close am I to my teen? How are things going? You know, I guess in one way, it feels like every interaction is a ton of conflict. It's just, like, a series of misunderstanding, and I think that doesn't feel great to either. I guess in the middle is, like, well, we don't have any overt conflict, but, like, do we, do we talk about things? Like, do I know about the things that are going on in their life? Would they come to me if they were struggling?

AI assessment note: “every interaction is a ton of conflict. It's just, like, a series of misunderstanding”

Q it together. Do you, do you think A lot of my friends sort of, like, try to, I don't know, resolve this issue is the right word, but, um, it's like, well, if you get above, you know, 80, you can have x amount of video game time per day, and if your report card has your grades above 90, you can have x times two. What is that doing?

A Well, I think now we're talking about so many different things about, like, grades and about our focus on them. And kids building intrinsic motivation versus extrinsic motivation and, you know, um, I, the part of that that I think is well-intentioned, okay, is, I mean, there's, everything's well-intentioned, but the part of me that strikes me about that in a positive way is I think to some degree we're saying, I want to make sure you're, like, doing the developmental tasks of your age. Like, you're supposed to be going to school, you're supposed to be doing your work, and if I think you're, and we both think you're kind of capable of performing in a certain way, not for some outside reason, but just because it's in line with your abilities, like, I want to make sure you're progressing in that way, and maybe these are markers, right? That you're kind of completing those developmental tasks. I, I get that. I don't think that's how kids receive it. I think it feels like grades are the thing that matters, and, you know, that's all. Um, I mean, I, I really, I, I don't think there's a perfect system, so that's what I think. I think we're all, like, muddying around in this. Um, I, I do think when it comes to, you know, screen time, and how much, and when, to me, this is, like, actually a great time to, like, call Kind of a family meeting of sorts, that's what I call them, where, espec…

AI assessment note: “I don't think that's how kids receive it. I think it feels like grades”

Q other things we talked about earlier, and I'm sort of like going down a couple of rabbit holes because we sort of covered a lot of ground really quickly, was regulating emotions. And not only do we as adults and parents have to teach our kids or help them better regulate their own emotions, we have to often learn how to regulate our own emotions. How do we do that?

A I get this question from parents often, right? Because the way kids learn how to regulate emotions, Is through their relationship with their parents, right? It's not something you could get taught in a textbook. And it's not to say when we get older if we didn't have a lot of those early experiences that helped us learn how to regulate our emotions, which most adults I know, a lot of them didn't. Doesn't mean we can't get there. But our kids, right, they kind of borrow our regulation in a moment, and they kind of absorb it. And like I was saying before, they kind of over time learn. Oh, my emotion inside me that feels so scary to me is less scary to someone else, and they kind of absorb that hope, and they absorb that kind of tolerance, and that really forms the foundation for so many of their coping skills. So parents will say to me, okay, I actually get that. How can I do that for my kid if I can't, if I, if I really do struggle to regulate my own emotions? It seems like I'm teaching my kid and myself at the same time. And we are. And, like, that's, is just kind of the hand a lot of us were dealt, and it's not an impossible hand. It's not an easy hand, but it's definitely a winnable hand. Like, I know that, and I've seen it now with millions of adults who are, you know, winning a lot of their hands. Um, and so I think there's a couple, like, concrete ways as adults that we ca…

AI assessment note: “concrete ways as adults that we can, you know, start to learn how to better regulate”

Q other things we talked about earlier, and I'm sort of like going down a couple of rabbit holes because we sort of covered a lot of ground really quickly, was regulating emotions. And not only do we as adults and parents have to teach our kids or help them better regulate their own emotions, we have to often learn how to regulate our own emotions. How do we do that?

A I get this question from parents often, right? Because The way kids learn how to regulate emotions is through their relationship with their parents, right? It's not something you could get taught in a textbook, and it's not to say when we get older if we didn't have a lot of those early experiences that helped us learn how to regulate our emotions, which most adults I know a lot of them didn't. It doesn't mean we can't get there, but our kids, right, they kind of borrow our regulation in a moment, and they kind of absorb it, and like I was saying before, they kind of over time learn Oh, my emotion inside me that feels so scary to me is less scary to someone else, and they kind of absorb that hope, and they absorb that kind of tolerance, and that really forms the foundation for so many of their coping skills. So parents will say to me, okay, I actually get that. How can I do that for my kid if I can't, if I, if I really do struggle to regulate my own emotions? It seems like I'm teaching my kid and myself at the same time. And we are. And, like, that's, is just kind of the hand a lot of us were dealt, and it's not an impossible hand. It's not an easy hand, but it's definitely a winnable hand. Like, I know that, and I've seen it now with millions of adults who are, you know, winning a lot of their hands. Um, and so I think there's a couple, like, concrete ways as adults that we ca…

AI assessment note: “Number one to me is just the word curiosity. Like, being curious about yourself”

Q this, and this is natural and normal, and I think it's part of being human, and, um, how do we repair with our kids or our partner after this happens? Okay, we've had this outburst, Uh, or, you know, we had this fight or this argument. We're not feeling good about it, but we really don't know what to do now. How do we get back to a good place?

A I'm so glad you're asking this question because I always, like, kick myself if I'm in a conversation and don't get to talk about this because it's the ultimate, right? Like, to me, repair is literally the number one relationship strategy everyone should get good at, whether you're in a partnership, Your relationships at work, and definitely your relationship with your kid, and I want to go through this in a way, it's literally going to come full circle to confidence, to behavior versus identity, as everything, because I really think of myself as like a first principles thinker. It always comes back to, to the same few things. So Every single person, definitely me included, messes up. Like, I yell at my kids, and it's not something I'm just saying, like, oh, that's nice. She's saying this. Like, of course I yell at my kid. Like, I'd be offended that you didn't think I yelled at my kid. Like, my kids, first of all, do not have Dr. Becky as a parent, and I would not wish Dr. Becky on any child. I really wouldn't as a parent. Like, it's, it's just not, it's not human. It's not the way you can learn about how relationships work, right? If our relationship with our kids Becomes the model they kind of take into adulthood, and how they think about relationships. Shane, I don't think you and I want our kids going to look for a partner who's like, who is perfectly attuned to my emotions …

AI assessment note: “repair is literally the number one relationship strategy everyone should get good at”

Q couple quick questions, perhaps, before we wind up here. Uh, great. One question that one of my friends had was about when adolescence is actually over. It seems like it's become a prolonged Life stage, and there's even been formal proposals now to increase the, uh, end range from 19 to 24. Do you agree with this? How should parents and society sort of, like, gear themselves up for this?

A So, I don't, I don't know if that's, like, it actually just makes me think, like, again, if I'm sitting on the same side of the table as my kid, would I be like, hey, you're an adult now, like, I don't know, I feel like that's a little off the tongue. See ya. Right, see ya, like, ok. Um, but I think underlying this question is, like, when does my kid become more independent, and like, when do they start to take care of themselves, right? And I actually think this gets back to Something we didn't touch on, but you mentioned earlier, which is the idea of, like, letting our kids struggle, right? Um, to me, one of the things that I think For some reason, it's getting increasingly hard to do in parenting. It's just, it's just letting your kid live the results of, like, their actions, you know. And to me, that's not, like, the word consequence, but to me, a great example, and it does relate to prolonged adolescence versus, I think when we say launching into adulthood, it's just, like, feeling capable and feeling more independent, is I think we have to ask ourselves, like, when my kids are young and entering adolescence for getting prolonged, am I setting them up for that? Right? Am I setting them up? What is the circuit? I'm always thinking about this. What is the circuit I'm building with my kid? So, for example, my kid recently had swim in middle school, um, and I saw he forgot his…

AI assessment note: “underlying this question is, like, when does my kid become more independent”