The Exchanges

Q Yeah. And that you could start to move to the next chapter in your life, maybe. I'm wondering, Vincent, back to you, um, could I, I, you know, I, I'm feeling that sadness for sure, and I, I really, um, empathize with that. And I wonder how you, what helped you just emotionally cope, cope with it? How, what was helpful during that time?

A It was about, I'd say a three month depression or depressed period. And, um, I sought out a therapist during that time just to talk through these issues. Uh, I had a support group of other entrepreneurs and, you know, they were able to lend some perspective on loads that they had went through as well. Um, but I also leaned on Andrew. I mean, Andrew was my rock during that time and he really, uh, helps, you know, keep, keep things together and can keep a really positive perspective. You know, it kept reminding me that like, Hey, this is just chapter one, you know, we learned so much from this, and we're just gonna put our learnings to work to us in the next chapter. And, you know, hearing things like that would, would keep me motivated.

AI assessment note: “I sought out a therapist during that time just to talk through these issues.”

Q Today you have, you're in the energy bars space too, which is a tough, we've done energy bars in the show. We've done RX bar. We've done a Lara bar. We've done cliff bar. Uh, it's a really crowded space. Tell me about, about the thinking behind energy bars. Why did you get into that space?

A The people that were buying our unsweetened coconut chip, which is just made from coconut and salt, were telling us they need more snacks like this because it's perfect for their keto diet. And I looked at the bar space and I was like, nobody's doing a keto bar. Why not? And, you know, we have all this credibility from coconut chips, you know, it's high fat, low carb. So we developed a line of keto bars using cocoa butter and Asian ingredients like matcha. And we're like, all right, we're going to put our Our brand's been on it by introducing matcha to that category and other Asian flavors, and yeah, we started showing it to, like, you know, Whole Foods bar buyer, and they were like, all right, yeah, let's, let's try it out. Let's bring it in. So we went national until January, twenty-nineteen at Whole Foods.

AI assessment note: “I looked at the bar space and I was like, nobody's doing a keto bar.”

Q we were looking for capital, I'd say, well, what are you? I mean, coconut chips alone, I'm not sure. Did you start to think about your company differently? Did you start to say, you know what, we are a snack food brand? Or did you say, we are an Asian American snack food brand? How did you begin to think about what you, what you wanted your story to be?

A You know, I think it was an evolution. So we started out with, hey, we're a better for you snack company that takes, you know, whole foods that you can identify and turns them into snacks that you can eat. But then looking at it later on, we were like, there's nothing ownable about that. Like that could describe any number of snack companies. And so later on we realized, okay, how do we make it different? And like, we had to look at ourself and say, how are we different than everybody else out there? And one thing that we always relied on was, you know, Asian flavors and ingredients, and so we changed that over time to an Asian-American snack company that stood for bringing ingredients and flavors from Asia in forms that Americans understand, like chips, and later on, bars.

AI assessment note: “we changed that over time to an Asian-American snack company”

Q Um, tell me a little bit about sort of the culture at home. Your parents are from Thailand. They were born in Thailand, but their parents or grandparents actually came from China. So Tell me what that meant at home. Did you have Chinese traditions in addition to Thai traditions at home, or was it primarily sort of Thai food and Thai cultural traditions that you remember?

A I want to say it was a blend, um, and each parent kind of treated it differently. So, you know, at our dad's house, uh, on Lunar New Year or Chinese New Year, You know, we would, um, kind of get together and, you know, have a meal and, uh, sometimes we're red and collect ang pao, which is these, you know, money and envelopes from relatives. Um, and so I think he was keen on, you know, keeping some of those Chinese traditions alive. And at the same time, you know, when we went to his house, we would eat congee in the morning, you know, which is, there's a lot of Thai Chinese cuisine that we grew up eating. You know, I remember there was a fourth grade school project where we had to bring in a dish, um, from your country, your family country of origin, and so I brought in, my mom helped me make chicken satay, which is like grilled chicken on sticks. With peanut sauce? With peanut sauce, yeah.

AI assessment note: “I want to say it was a blend, um, and each parent kind of”

Q All right. So you, um, you're clearly Vincent. I mean, tell me, take me to like, the first sort of five, four or five months of that year. Is this all you're thinking about? Because you still have another job, like you've got a day job working for this startup.

A I, I was definitely on a kind of adrenaline rush for the first few months of just thinking about this, and I was pretty committed to making it a company at that point. And we heard about this other trade show in March, 20 12 called the Expo, Natural Product Expo West. And I didn't know about it until a month before, and I was like, oh, wow, maybe we can get a booth, but they ran out of booths. So what we did was we got two feet of table space in a shared booth with dozens of vendors, and we somehow fit four people into a two-foot table space, one behind the table and three in front of the table standing in the aisles. So we stood in the aisles, just, we made a wall, and in order to pass through That aisle. You had to go past one of our, our people, and it was me, my dad, my brother, and my girlfriend at the time, now my wife. And nobody got through the wall without tasting some coconut chips.

AI assessment note: “I was definitely on a kind of adrenaline rush for the first few months”

Q I think later that year in 2012, you managed to get into some Safeway stores. How did you even get on their radar?

A I still don't to this day. I don't, I'm not a hundred percent, but I think they, they saw us in a store. I don't know which store. Um, so they called me and they're like, Hey, you know, can you come present to our produce team? And I remember going in there as a huge conference room. And, you know, I gave my, my presentation about dang and our coconut chips. And they said, We love this and we want to create a premium snack destination in the produce department in all of our stores. So they quickly put us into about a thousand Safeway stores with like large displays in the produce section, which is the front of the store. 90% of the people walk through that area. Like that was a game changer for us because up until then it was just, you know, small stores here and there. You know, small orders from H-E-B. But that's when, that's when I called Andrew and I was like, I need help.

AI assessment note: “I think they, they saw us in a store. I don't know which store.”

Q it's now January, 20 12, you still, you're still working for the startup, right, at the time. But it sounds like you've got, the wheels are in motion on this thing, and you want to test this out. Cause you had some success at the trade show the previous summer. So who are you going to test this out on? I mean, you had, you're still packaging them yourself, right?

A Yeah. So we package them in these foil bags. Um, and each of these, you know, now it's a product, right? So we have, you know, coconut chips in a bag with a sticker on it and it says toasted coconut chips on it. It says dang, and it has a picture of coconuts and, um, I found a consumer show called the new taste marketplace, which is like a artisanal market in St. Gregory's church in San Francisco. Um, and we did pretty well. Uh, and that's where we really learned how to talk about the product and say, Hey, you know, these are coconut chips. They're a healthy snack. Um, they've got all the health benefits of coconut oil and you can put it on your salads or your ice cream or your yogurt. And so that's where we really kind of got the pitch down for how to sell coconut chips.

AI assessment note: “I found a consumer show called the new taste marketplace”

Q All right. But when you came back, Home after the show, what did you do? Did you start to email all the people whose cards you got?

A Yeah, exactly. So, you know, I remember meeting people at the trade show and asking them, Hey, do you want to get a cup of coffee? And, you know, sitting down, I remember one guy at the trade show, he was like, Oh, you got business cards. Let's go through them. And he helped me go through a stack of at least a hundred business cards and would pull that ones and be like, this is worth it. Following up on like, you don't want to lose this card. That was huge. Like he helped me kind of figure out the lay of the land. And so when we, when the first container landed in July, we had a bunch of customers who had committed. So we started shipping it out directly to grocery stores. Yeah. Like H-E-B was one of the biggest one at the time.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, exactly. So, you know, I remember meeting people at the trade show”

Q Yeah, I bet. And so when that didn't work, one other option Is, of course, could you sell? Could you, could you find a buyer for the company? And what, what did you guys try to do?

A Yeah, we collectively got together with our board, had meetings, and came out with a list of people that we're going to go after and who's going to talk to them. You know, brands, uh, and or, you know, organizations that would be interested in acquiring us. But the idea was, uh, you know, we might not make sense as a standalone entity, but it does make sense as an add-on. Like we spent 10 years building this brand that people understand and know and go back and look for. Um, and, you know, if you already have a group that's operating a business, you can tack this onto it. And, you know, we had talked with probably another, you know, close to a hundred brands. Wow. And, uh, a lot of them, you know, were interested and some of them were worried about, uh, supply chain issues. Um, and we actually ended up, you know, getting an offer, some offers from, uh, Interestingly, these, you know, do you remember the, the kind of SPAC craze?

AI assessment note: “we collectively got together with our board, had meetings, and came out with a list”

Q And, and, and did you, I mean, is that something that you guys probably spent too much on initially?

A I think at the beginning we did things like go to consumer shows. So there are these shows like Green Festival and Fit Expo, Women's Expo, that were meant to hit at a specific consumer. And we tried a lot of them without actually trying to pinpoint who the consumer was before that. Um, I think we saw it as a way to Spread, you know, word about the brand, but, you know, looking back at like, there were just too many different shows in too many different types of people. We should be more precise about who we're targeting. And then, we ended up having to redesign our packaging multiple times because, you know, I think we were probably swayed at the time we had just raised some money. And so, um, our investors had a perspective on, you know, what they thought we were, but rather than Dig down and say, okay, we are an Asian American snack company. You know, we, we kind of went in the direction of, oh, we're just, we're a healthy snack company. We're, we're a natural food company. Um, which to us wasn't differentiated when you really like picked it apart. You know, there's a lot of healthy snack companies, but what was unique to us is the fact that we're using, you know, an authentic recipe from Thai cuisine. And so leaning into that, Later on was, uh, it felt better and it felt more authentic to who we were.

AI assessment note: “I think at the beginning we did things like go to consumer shows.”

Q That journey, right? And, and so Vincent, I mean, I, I can't imagine how much you learned. What, tell me, can you talk about some of the things that you've brought with you to your new company that, I don't know, let's start with the things that you did right. What are some of the things you did right at Dang that worked and that you will continue to do?

A I would say, you know, focusing on the product at the very beginning is, is, The utmost importance. So making sure that you really understand your product and why people are buying it and who's buying it and when are they consuming it? Um, and this is all kind of goes under this guise of product market fit. Um, I think that's super important. And I think that's something that, you know, founders need to be obsessive about, uh, at the beginning because your success is ultimately going to depend on how much product market fit you have. Um, so I would say that's the number one thing. Uh, and then, you know, I think making sure that as a company you're, you're set up for that success. So You know, now, after 10 years, we understand that it's not just having a good product, but you actually have the operations team, you gotta have the finance team, you gotta have marketing team to really back it up. And so, if you, you know, have one part that's working, but one part that isn't, it's not really gonna add up.

AI assessment note: “focusing on the product at the very beginning is, is, The utmost importance.”

Q You know, obviously, Vincent, um, you're involved in this new company, and Andrew, you are doing consulting work. Do either of you imagine, with all that you've learned from Dang, maybe starting something, either together or separately, starting something new again one day? A new business?

A I could definitely see doing something. I don't think it would be the, in the exact same, uh, consumer product Industry niche. So what I mean is that, you know, there's a lot of challenges with coming up with a consumer product, you know, bringing it to market, dealing with distribution and retailers. It's all the chips are stacked against you as a smaller player. Um, and you know, I, I don't think that it's, uh, it's just not a, it's not a game that I want to play again, necessarily. However, I think if you can find a niche or maybe a technological advantage, um, or be a part of the ecosystem in a different way, like, you know, creating, say, say it's like AI for flavor innovation, something like that. Um, then I think that's super interesting because I can, you know, use what I've learned about this industry, uh, to, to my advantage and, uh, come at it with a different angle.

AI assessment note: “I could definitely see doing something. I don't think it would be”

Q Yes, and so imagine if your child asked you for some help to start their business and it didn't work out, like, you'd still be super proud of them, right? Like, just think about your own kid.

A Yeah. I think, you know, the fact that he, uh, I think he saw a lot of himself in what we were doing too. So he moved to the U S in 1977 and started a candle business and he was importing candles from Thailand. Um, there, my, him and my mom also had a silk flower business. So, you know, we were, we actually grew up in those businesses and go into the trade shows. And so we learned a lot of the skills and the lingo, um, from, from growing up around that. And the fact that we were doing a similar business model, but with coconut chips and rice chips, you know, I think he saw that, Hey, he had influenced us and he was probably, uh, proud that he was able to influence us, you know, enough to start a business and have a run for 10 years.

AI assessment note: “he was probably, uh, proud that he was able to influence us”