The Exchanges

Q And, and I guess, what, that, that sort of gave you an idea for a business, which was, like, uh, making software for writing screenplays. Is, is that right?

A Right. So I realized that there was an interesting way of thinking about a screenplay in terms of the different elements, a scene heading, the action that you see on the screen, a character's name, what the character says, various things, and if you think about typing on a typewriter, there's cues that your motions are giving you, the tab and enter key, that if the elements were smart and knew what they were and how they related to other elements and how they related to the page, then you could do all the formatting with All the pagination, all this really complex stuff, it was very arcane, automatically on the fly in a way that no one had ever done it.

AI assessment note: “Right. So I realized that there was an interesting way of thinking about a screenplay”

Q And, and so you started to design closed-toe shoes, and, um, how did you, I mean, how did you design them? Did you, who, who designed them?

A Well, let's start with our, our sandals where we were doing the custom-made sandals, and people were sending a tracing of their foot. So we had about 5000 foot tracings, and we mapped those out to come up with the right shape for a shoe. So most shoes have pointy toe boxes that squeeze your toes together, and we were seeing what human feet actually looked like. So we were literally, like, taking these tracings, putting them on a piece of, um, Foam core, tracing around them, marking dots where people's toes were, and just doing the closest thing to a big data play, just to figure out the shape, to make something that actually works with a human foot. Dennis was designing the shoe, and so Dennis and I would just go back and forth between either ideas of his or ideas of mine until we ended up with something that we liked.

AI assessment note: “Dennis was designing the shoe, and so Dennis and I would just go back and forth”

Q growth, but still a small shoe brand. How are you getting the word out about These new closed toe shoes. I mean, obviously you had a customer base who'd bought the sandals, but you know, there are other, at this point, there are other brands that are making quote unquote minimalist shoes. Some of the big players were doing versions of it. So how did you get the word out?

A The biggest thing was simply word of mouth. And whenever I can find any opportunity to create some sort of content or to engage with some audience or to find someone who has leverage over their own audience, that's what I'm going to do. And as the business has grown, our ability to do that has grown. So our, our email list is, you know, just shy of a million people. And we have, we have a list that we call our inner circle list for people who raise their hand and say, they really want to help. And it's like 70,000 people. We reach out and ask them to do something like vote on a new color or go to some website and comment on a post, like tens of thousands will go and do it. Uh, so people just, they want to be helpful.

AI assessment note: “The biggest thing was simply word of mouth.”

Q like 200,000 dollars, and you got it from a private lender, not from a bank. I think it's a private family office. Um, also, I think around this time, like, 2012 or 13, um, you changed the name of the brand from Invisible Shoes to Zero Shoes with an X, right? X-E-R-O, which I think is a great name, Zero Shoes. Um, but tell me why you changed the name.

A Well, I was introduced to someone who had been the VP of marketing for a multi-billion dollar fitness company. And we got together for lunch. And the first thing he said, he looks at my feet and he goes, I can see them. I said, yeah, but it's, you know, it feels like there's nothing on your foot. So it's kind of invisible. He goes, I can see them. It's like, all right. And he goes, besides invisible is not something you can protect very easily. So we, uh, had been referred to a small marketing agency. They'd all left a big agency and started their own thing, and they came up with a bunch of names that were, let's say, unspellable and unsayable, but they had one that started with an X. Here, I'll give it to you. It's X-O-I-C-S. Any clues?

AI assessment note: “besides invisible is not something you can protect very easily”

Q Did they say, hey, you know, you might want to look into this if you're getting a lot of injuries? Like, what do you remember?

A So my friend Simon hands me Born to Run and says, maybe there's something in here. Maybe you should try running barefoot just to see what you learn. And so, um, to be clear, I'm not going to suggest that people run barefoot, even though it changed my life. But, um, The gist of it is everything we're going to talk about when it has to do with our business. It's not about footwear. It's about natural form. It's letting your body do what bodies are made to do naturally without getting in the way. And so this idea of running barefoot, it's like, all right, well, that seemed interesting. And it just happened coincidentally. There was a guy in town who was doing a barefoot running workshop that next weekend, and so I thought, all right, well, I'll give it a shot. So we go out for this barefoot run, and we're running on grass, and we're running on trails, and we're running on roads, and we're running over wooden bridges, and I was just so enthralled, so entranced with the experience of feeling my feet on the ground and experimenting to see what would happen if I ran faster than But still had the same cadence, the same number of steps per minute. Or if I landed on that part of my foot or the other part of my foot, I was just really, really fascinated by the whole thing.

AI assessment note: “my friend Simon hands me Born to Run and says, maybe there's something in here.”

Q And so where did you go? Where, where did you find a new manufacturer?

A We lucked out. Um, there was a footwear industry magazine that we got and the cover was a story about a group out of New York that were manufacturing agents. And so, uh, Lena reached out to them and they said, we're happy to talk. I flew out to New York and met with them. And for reasons that to this day, I barely understand, they decided to work with us. In fact, even more, what I found out years later is that they vetted us. They called around and asked about us and a whole, and a whole bunch of people like vouched for us. And I could not be more grateful, but I mean, we were this tiny little goofy sandal kit company, and people were saying, oh, no, you, these guys are good. You got to work with them. And they did.

AI assessment note: “the cover was a story about a group out of New York that were manufacturing agents”

Q only worth, it's only going to be worth three, four hundred million dollars. There's going to be tons of people trying to eat at that, you know, at that, you know, trying to take a slice of that pie. So, what's your response when people say, you know, this is still a tiny market, and Are you essentially trying to position yourself to be the dominant player in that market?

A Yes. We're very close to actually being the dominant player in this space. And we don't want to pigeonhole ourselves in this whole idea of the barefoot market. Because again, the customers that we have, the number who know nothing about this idea of barefoot or minimalist or whatever, they just experience the comfort and benefits of our product. And we hear about people who are wearing our shoes for 20 different reasons. And so we have a number of professional athletes who are living in our shoes. We have a number of music celebrities who are wearing our shoes when they are not being seen on stage because they're being paid by a big shoe company to wear those shoes. We have parents of kids with ADD and ADHD who swear by what we're doing.

AI assessment note: “Yes. We're very close to actually being the dominant player in this space.”