The Exchanges

Q I guess, uh, you know, you're, you're doing this job and you're, you know, it seems like it's doing pretty well, but I guess around 2008 with the financial crisis, um, it also affected, um, your, the company you worked, you worked for, right?

A That's right. Yeah. We, we held on by the skin of our teeth. Um, we had to let go basically the entire office. Um, so I had to, I had to go through that. That was a, that was a experience I won't forget. I, I was probably a year, a year or so into my job in charge of 20 some odd people, local Chinese in my office in Shanghai. And then suddenly my boss tells me, well, you got to lay them all off, you know, have at it. And I was like, I don't, like, why do I have to do that? I was young, young in my career and It was a horrible experience to have to do that, and I remember tearing up, um, when I had to tell them that, uh, you know, here's what we can pay you if you leave now, um, and if you decide to wait until we let you, like, formally let you go, there might not be anything, and I hated, I hated how it, everybody rightfully so were upset at me, and, um, and I just hated that feeling, um, Of, of, of looking at these people in the eye who I thought were my friends and peers kind of all turn against me and feel like it was my fault and everybody was blaming me. And I just, um, I took a big pay cut and I'm really, uh, hunkered down with my, my boss at the time. And I remember telling them that I still believe in what we can do. It's just the market conditions are horrible. And, um, Let them know that I want to stick with them, but hopefully I'd get some equity in the future for ki…

AI assessment note: “That's right. Yeah. We, we held on by the skin of our teeth.”

Q Through these holes at the top to, to like to burn off the smoke. And I mean, essentially you want to build a camping stove. I gather that reduced or eliminated smoke, but you also wanted to make it easy to start because starting a campfire is, is not easy for most people, right?

A Well, that was the beauty of when we looked at YouTube and saw how people were DIYing. And when we were playing with cans and cans, we realized that the airflow, how it works just naturally makes it easier for, for fires to light. I mean, it's, It's not rocket science. Fires need oxygen. And so the more oxygen you give it from different areas from underneath it, um, fires take a lot, a lot faster. And then it being contained within the camping stove, it's protected from wind. And then you add on the, the, the ring that sits on top, which supports the pot that's put on top, that kind of creates an added extra windshield as well. And so it naturally was easier to start fires, but we weren't thinking like, We're gonna revolutionize this category with something brand new. It was just, can we make a slightly better mousetrap?

AI assessment note: “we realized that the airflow, how it works just naturally makes it easier”

Q Wow. All right. So first of all, you guys, so you've, you've made the decision to try, you know, to make a go at this and, uh, and, and you call, and you decided to call it the solo stove. Where, where did the name come from?

A Yeah. I mean, we literally just sat around thinking of names and really just at the same time searching for what domains were available, um, that we could get. And, um, we had gotten to the point of realizing that a long name, a long drawn out name, like, um, China business traveler.com is very hard to remember and to type in. And so we always wanted something really short, um, and something that spoke to what we were doing. Uh, and we really thought. It's the only stove you need if you're backpacking or camping, and it's great for one person. It's kind of a single person size, and so Solo kind of clicked on all corners for us.

AI assessment note: “It's kind of a single person size, and so Solo kind of clicked”

Q Was he, was he disappointed in you? I mean, did he understand, or what?

A He was upset. He felt like I had talents that maybe I didn't share with him. Um, which I think is understandable, but then, you know, after a night, night of sleep, you know, the next day was a different tone, and it was, um, you know, a more tone of, uh, you know, you betrayed me. Um, and, uh, this was, you know, this, we were supposed to build this together. Um, uh, and in my mind, I was like, this is what I was building with my brother. This was never going to be something that, you know, we were going to create and then bring every, you know, bring him on board. There's just me and Jeff side gig that ended up blowing up.

AI assessment note: “He was upset. He felt like I had talents that maybe I didn't share”

Q How was it? How was that for you guys to start to train people and essentially become Leaders and managers. How did it go?

A It was a, it was an exercise of trial and error, and there was a lot more error, uh, happening in those early days, and I feel really bad to those early employees. You know, we gave it our best effort, and, uh, you know, I openly apologize to those that had to suffer through our, my inexperience in being a leader. You know, I wish I was the one that could rally the troops and, and, and care about every Uh, aspect of their personal lives and, and, and work wholeheartedly to make them a better person. But it just wasn't me. I was about doing and getting things done. Um, the problem was I wasn't excited to get better at this.

AI assessment note: “It was an exercise of trial and error, and there was a lot more error”

Q I mean, at what point, you know, if you're doing the first year half a million in sales, at what point did you, I mean, did the two of you start to say, well, maybe we need to think about this in a bigger way? Like, what was, what happened to get you there?

A Yeah, I think for, for me, it was, You know, it's just being overwhelmed with everything is just, you know, we had this, I had this idea of this four hour work week. That's why we set out to do this. Um, and as things became too much, you know, performance in my day job kind of slipped. It was a situation where I had a tough conversation with my boss. I called him my business partner. I gained some equity in that company I was working for. And, um, And that was a tough conversation. I mean, even now it's hard to articulate all the, all the feelings that went into figuring that out and the misunderstandings and, and what I should have done maybe, but I never thought any of this would really amount to much. I thought it would be a great side hustle and why talk about it if it's not going to be a big issue. And, um, the problem was, is the bigger it got, the more I was afraid to bring it up. Um, to the guy I was working for, because now it is an issue.

AI assessment note: “as things became too much, you know, performance in my day job kind of slipped.”

Q On Kickstarter. Um, I'm curious about, um, I know they were all patented and you filed, you know, you got your patents and it was trademarked and everything, but, um, I'm surprised that there weren't copycats or were there copycats popping up on Amazon?

A So in the early days, no. And I think, um, you know, a big part of that was one, the Amazon rush was starting, but it wasn't in full force. Um, and then two, uh, you know, we were really quiet about things. You know, we did Kickstarter, and that was one of the concerns we had, is if people see how much we sell, then there's more likelihood that people will want to copy. Um, but at that point, product development, uh, needed to get going, and we said, well, what's next? And that led us to creating Bonfire, which was our first backyard fire pit. And the other point of it was, if we could show demand for the product, perhaps we could get interest from retailers, well-known retailers. Who, who we know are always looking for new product. We thought this would be a great resume builder for us to approach a potential retailer like an REI who, if we could get in, that's yet another check mark on the box of what we need to build in terms of our resume.

AI assessment note: “So in the early days, no. And I think, um, you know, a big part of that was”