The Exchanges

Q Sorry, so January twenty-eleven, you get to New York, And, um, you were just there for four months, um, which seems, seems like something happened that just seems unusual. What happened? Why? Why were you there for such a short time? Why'd you leave?

A You know, I, um, I loved the job, but the short of it was that it was a terrible cultural fit for me. I was, uh, one of two female investment professionals, I think, out of dozens, if not hundreds. The company culture was hyper-masculine, aggressive, swaggering, which all looks very cool on TV, um, and I'm, I'm sure there was a part of me that idolized it too, but the truth is it was terrible for me. I was, I think I professionally performed just fine, but internally, I mean, I, I, Started hyperventilating at work. I developed a weird tick. It was just very clear, I think, from week one, I was like, oh, I made a mistake.

AI assessment note: “the short of it was that it was a terrible cultural fit for me.”

Q can start this business, but there's another movie, which is You're going to see therapists. I have to assume that you were experiencing some depression from, you know, leaving that job. That can be a hard time to get motivated, to feel like, right? Did you just take some time to just kind of be sad and depressed, or were you thinking, I'm going to jump into this next idea?

A I remember being terribly sad and depressed and unwell, and I also remember thinking, I need to get moving or else I'm going to get stuck. And so I only remember this because I remember the dates that I signed certain contracts. I signed, uh, for a WeWork office starting May one, back when WeWork was still very small. I think they had like two buildings in New York. And then I officially registered as a LLC June one, um, in Delaware. So I just, I have records of those contracts, which makes me think like, okay, there was a part of me that That kept, kept pushing myself. Yes. But then I also remember going on a run and, um, stopping in the middle of the run because I had to, like, cry for 30 minutes. Um, and I think that was mid-July, right? So it was, it was kind of a, it was a parallel process. It wasn't like, ok, now I'm done being sad and I'm gonna go start my company. It was, it was, I was working through both things at the same time.

AI assessment note: “it was a parallel process... I was working through both things at the same time”

Q Sorry, so January, 2011, you get to New York, and, um, you were just there for four months, um, which seems, seems like something happened. It just seems unusual. What, what happened? Why? Why were you there for such a short time? Why'd you leave?

A You know, I, um, I loved the job, but the short of it was that it was a terrible cultural fit for me. I was, uh, one of two female investment professionals, I think, out of dozens, if not hundreds. The company culture was hyper-masculine, aggressive, swaggering, which all looks very cool on TV, um, and I'm, I'm sure there was a part of me that idolized it, too, but the truth is it was terrible for me. I was, I think I professionally performed just fine, but internally, I mean, I, I, Started hyperventilating at work. I developed a weird tick. It was just very clear, I think, from week one, I was like, oh, I made a mistake.

AI assessment note: “the short of it was that it was a terrible cultural fit for me.”

Q Tell me about, about your mom. Did she, um, did she work?

A Yeah, she did, and I mean, really, a huge inspiration. I mean, I would say the reason I started my business in many ways goes back to my mom. She is Japanese, raised in Japan, and, you know, very, very unusual person for someone of her generation. She worked Throughout her life, um, continues to work today. She loves her job. Um, she runs a business selling travel jewelry out of Tokyo, which she started because I think in many ways it's, it's tough being a diplomat's wife. You have to move every three to four years, and I think the common assumption is that the wife usually gives up her Career. Yeah. So that she can, you know, be the diplomat's wife, host receptions, etc. But she couldn't, she always says, I can't wait for Monday, which, you know, your kids are like, what? Excuse me? Like, how about us on the weekends? But, um, she just, she loved going to work, and I think that was a real inspiration for me and my sister. You know, we never assumed that we would not get jobs. That was the only thing we assumed.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, she did, and I mean, really, a huge inspiration.”

Q So as you started to, as kind of the gears in your head started to turn more and more about this idea of professional clothing for women, did you have a sort of a solid vision of what that would be, or was it still kind of abstract in the spring of 2011?

A You know, surprisingly, my, my vision for the product was very clear. Um, my mom, before she started her, her jewelry business, had worked in high-end fashion, and so I think through her, I got to see and touch a lot of these beautiful pieces of High-end clothing that she would bring home, not because she bought them, but, you know, as samples or as gifts. And I think she dressed also in that way, incredibly tailored and polished. And I think my big question when I was starting this business was, why aren't there clothes like this for regular working women? You know, the clothes that I was shopping for at the time, it was always ill-fitting. It would rip a lot easily. Um, I would always have to get it tailored. Uh, it, It just, it would wrinkle easily. I mean, there were so many things that were wrong with it, and I was spending so much money trying to dress professionally for work. So I, I knew exactly the kind of clothing that I wanted to create, which is really, like, I wanted to sell dresses that would sell for 2000 dollars for a fraction of the price, and I, I wanted to work with a luxury designer because I wanted my customers, I wanted regular working women to wear luxury quality clothing.

AI assessment note: “surprisingly, my, my vision for the product was very clear.”

Q Hmm. Alright, so as you really started to, to see traction, um, presumably your, your biggest market was in New York, and then And then where, where were you also, like, what other markets were you seeing traction in, you know, by, by, by twenty-fourteen, 25?

A New York was always number one, still is number one, but we saw ourselves growing in two other markets, which was D.C., um, and then the other one being San Francisco, and D.C. was fascinating. You know, we have a lot of congresswomen, a couple of senators who wear our clothes, and staffers, too. Um, you know, I was, uh, on Capitol Hill a few months ago, um, And walked into the congressional building and immediately saw a number of our customers. And then on the other end, we were seeing customers in San Francisco, which became our third largest market. And these women were saying to us, you know, I don't actually want to go to work in jeans and a hoodie. I make money. I want to wear nice clothes. And at the same time, if I dress too nicely, people think I'm interviewing. And in some ways, the dress code is even more nebulous. Can you help me figure out what to wear? Uh, And so Miyako actually started working on what we're calling power casual, a power casual line for them where it's, it's much more relaxed. It's a lot of pant based, knit based, uh, offerings, but it's a, a more dressed up version of the, the jeans and the hoodie. And, um, so we have a really loyal fan base out in San Francisco as well.

AI assessment note: “we saw ourselves growing in two other markets, which was D.C., um, and then the other one being San Francisco”

Q This is an important question. This is from Rajni Arora, um, and Rajni asks, how are you marketing your products right now?

A So one of the big things that we did right before we went into COVID, we were going to dress any female candidate who was running for office, um, for free. We were going to rent our clothes to her or donate our clothes to her. And then she, after her use would donate it to Bottomless Closet, which is another wonderful nonprofit organization. It turned into this huge marketing initiative, like Croatian media outlets were writing about it. Um, so, but obviously there's a lot of women who are not campaigning on the campaign trail anymore. A lot of their campaigning is being done from home. One thing we're doing there is actually just featuring, um, some of these women and getting them to talk about, you know, what are the issues that they care about and how are they, um, how are they campaigning during this difficult time? We're sharing that on our, we have a newsletter called the MDash, so we're continuing to kind of, you know, make sure that customers understand what it is that we, we stand for, even if women aren't necessarily out there talking. Digital marketing, you know, that's kind of, if that's top of funnel marketing and digital marketing is all the way at the, at the bottom, we continue to do that too. We have pulled back, um, ad spend on just channels where we were seeing, you know, in marketing speak, long payback periods because we wanted our, our money to be as effic…

AI assessment note: “We have pulled back, um, ad spend on just channels where we were seeing”

Q Yeah, I mean, when, you know, we've had conversations with founders who, at this point, the first thing they do is start to reach out to anybody who will talk to them. They, you know, um, they'll send, like, cold emails and, and cold call people for advice, and is that, is that who you, who you are? Like, is that your personality? Is that what you did?

A I would say it was more organic. Um, again, I didn't know anybody who worked in fashion, uh, so, um, I remembered that there was a woman who was a couple years ahead of me at college. She had gone to RISD to study interior design, and I think textiles in interior design, and I was like, well, that's, that's one step closer to fashion. So I reached out to her, and I was like, hey, do you know anybody who works in fashion? She was like, actually, I do know one person from RISD who went into fashion, so let me put you in touch with her. So she was the one fashion designer that I knew, and she put me in touch with her for Five headhunters in fashion, most of whom had no time for me. Uh, you know, they were like, what, Bane? Like, never heard of it. Don't care. Like, please come back when you're serious. I've got Calvin Klein on the other line.

AI assessment note: “I would say it was more organic. Um, again, I didn't know anybody”

Q 240 dollars for a dress or, you know, 225 dollars for a pair of trousers. What am I getting out of this that I can't get from Zara or H&M?

A Yeah. We hear that all the time. And, um, we were actually briefly, briefly talking to a department store, a luxury department store, and, you know, they said to us, you could sell these dresses for 700 dollars. That's what we would sell it for. Um, and we said, exactly, but the point is we sell it for 202 50. That's the, that's the point. But it's little details that I think most fashion designers wouldn't care about. And I think that's really, that's really where we set ourselves apart and, and try to justify the price point. You know, does it have pockets? Can you zip it up yourself easily? We're always checking to make sure that you can zip up yourself because you might be traveling by yourself and be in a hotel room by yourself. Um, you know, does it, does it feel comfortable on the skin because you're going to be spending 14 hours in it? It's my incredibly practical nature, wanting machine washability and wrinkle resistance and comfort in everything that I wear, and then Miyako really saying, I've spent 20 years training to deliver the best designs in the world, so let me figure out how I can do that for, for working women. And I think the place where those two things meet, that's M.M. Le Fleur.

AI assessment note: “wanting machine washability and wrinkle resistance and comfort in everything that I wear”

Q Tell me about, about your mom. Did she, um, did she work?

A Yeah, she did, and I mean, really, a huge inspiration. I mean, I would say the reason I started my business in many ways goes back to my mom. She is Japanese, raised in Japan, and, you know, very, very unusual person for someone of her generation. She worked throughout her life, continues to work today. She loves her job. She runs a business selling travel jewelry out of Tokyo, which she started because I think in many ways it's tough being a diplomat's wife. You have to move every three to four years, and I think the common assumption is that the wife usually gives up her career so that she can, you know, be the diplomat's wife, host receptions, etc. But she couldn't, she always says, I can't wait for Monday, which, you know, your kids are like, what? Excuse me? Like, how about us on the weekends? But, um, she just, she loved going to work, and I think that was a real inspiration for me and my sister. You know, we never assumed that we would not get jobs. That was the only thing we assumed.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, she did, and I mean, really, a huge inspiration.”

Q I mean, that model was starting to be out there, right? There was literally a company called Trunk Club, and Stitch Fix, and some of these companies that we know now. And you, you guys were not doing that? You weren't picking outfits for people, sending them, and letting them pick, and then sending stuff back?

A No, we were not. Um, you know, I think we... We just thought, it was actually, it was interesting, because even when I suggested this initially to my team, um, there were a lot of, when I say a lot of people, there were four people, uh, who said, like, oh, no, I, I would never want someone else to pick out what it is that I should wear. Like, I want to choose for myself. Why would I want someone else to pick for me? And, you know, I kind of had to say, um, Annie, Annie was my CMO. Um, Annie and I were in the camp of, you know, we're not, Fashion lovers. Like, if someone else who, who understands fashion better than we do told us what we should be wearing, like, that's actually a pretty amazing service. So we, we launched this, I guess you could call it the beta, uh, in February, and operationally it was a total nightmare. I mean, we sent the wrong size to people. Some people were like, why did you send this to me? I don't understand. Um, there were a lot of those things, but the numbers really spoke for themselves. We, uh, There was more demand for that, that service than, than we had ever seen.

AI assessment note: “No, we were not.”

Q Sarah, let me ask you, you've had to make a whole series of decisions that you just never anticipated having to make. Can you kind of like walk me through, you know, sort of how you've approached just leadership over the last eight weeks and 10 weeks and what you've started to learn about yourself as a leader?

A Yeah. Aside from maybe the store closings and, I mean, really talking about the safety of our team, I think every other decision I have made in some other context. So whether that's about cost cutting or having to restructure the team, furlough is a new one. I, you know, we've never done that before, but the tricky thing about COVID is that all of these decisions are happening at the same time, as opposed to in separate situations. And also because all these things are happening at the same time and the world is changing so rapidly, that decision that you made a week ago is really no longer relevant this week. So it's just the speed of decision making that I think is accelerated so much. And then just in terms of like how I am managing as a leader, I think fundamentally it starts with the question of like, are you in a good place to make those decisions? And what I mean by that is it's incredibly stressful. Um, I'm sure there isn't a single CEO out there Who isn't up at four AM, you know, thinking like, oh God, what am I going to do about that? But the most important thing is, is kind of keeping your wits about you. That's really what I have prioritized. And I've learned to prioritize over the years because I've had experiences where I feel myself spiraling out of control. And when, when you do that, there is not a sound decision that's going to come out of you. So a lot of wha…

AI assessment note: “how I am managing as a leader, I think fundamentally it starts with the question”

Q 70,000 dollars in seed money between you and the loan you take. You have zero experience. Obviously you're intelligent, but no experience in fashion. You've got this kind of harebrained idea to start a company, and that's pretty much in a WeWork hot desk. Like, why, why would she say, yeah, sure, I'll, I'll go work with you. I'm, I'm just, yeah, why, why would she agree to do this?

A Well, I am, I'm just irresistible in person. No, I'm, I'm totally joking. I, every investor that I've ever spoken to, I mean, frankly, like, anybody I have ever spoken to about this in any sort of detail, their follow-up question is usually, like, what was she thinking, and why would she come and work for you? Totally fair question. Um, you know, I, I don't want to answer for her, but I, I think for her, it was, it just, it was so different. It was so, Unlike anything else that had ever been proposed to her, this idea of designing for a group of women that she didn't even really know about, working women, this idea that she always says, I never actually seen my clothes on a real person. That means a non-model. Um, I've never actually seen my clothes on the street. You know, she designed Oscar gowns. I think she designed a gown once for Natalie Portman. You know, that was kind of the, the world she was moving in, but she said there, there was no practical element to, um, The beautiful designs that I was making, and I think that was, that was a big question mark for her.

AI assessment note: “I think for her, it was, it just, it was so different.”

Q got 70,000 dollars in seed money between you and the loan you take. You have zero experience. Obviously you're intelligent, but no experience in fashion. You've got this kind of harebrained idea to start a company, and that's pretty much in a WeWork hot desk. Like, why, why would she say, yeah, sure, I'll go work with you. I'm, I'm just, yeah, why, why would she agree to do this?

A Well, I am, I'm just irresistible in person. No, I'm, I'm totally joking. I, every investor that I've ever spoken to, I mean, frankly, like, anybody I have ever spoken to about this in any sort of detail, their follow-up question is usually, like, what was she thinking, and why would she come and work for you? Totally fair question. Um, you know, I, I don't want to answer for her, but I, I think for her, it was, it just, it was so different. It was so, Unlike anything else that had ever been proposed to her, this idea of designing for a group of women that she didn't even really know about, working women, this idea that she always says, I never actually seen my clothes on a real person. That means a non-model. Um, I've never actually seen my clothes on the street. You know, she designed Oscar gowns. I think she designed a gown once for Natalie Portman. You know, that was kind of the, the world she was moving in, but she said there, there was no practical element to, um, The beautiful designs that I was making, and I think that was, that was a big question mark for her.

AI assessment note: “I think for her, it was, it just, it was so different.”

Q And describe the style, like, clean lines, Dark blacks, grays, like what, what do they look like?

A It was tailored, and I think most importantly, the fit was good. Um, and when I say the fit was good, so, um, I have since learned a lot about pattern making and fitting clothing. Most brands, if you're lucky, the designer will fit the garment on a real fit model once before it goes into production. If the fit on something you buy is off, it's probably because it wasn't fitted correctly, Or it went into production before all of the errors were corrected. Luxury brands can afford to do three or four fittings to really perfect the fit, whereas lower priced brands, they might be fitting it once or maybe never. They might just go straight to production. And I mean, there are so many things that are involved in good fit, but that was really one thing that I wanted her to understand is the way your body feels when you're wearing a well-fitted garment. It's magical. And you just can't get that at most of the price points that are out there.

AI assessment note: “It was tailored, and I think most importantly, the fit was good.”

Q And describe the style, like, clean lines, dark blacks, grays, like, what, what do they look like?

A It was tailored, and I think most importantly, the fit was good. Um, and when I say the fit was good, so, um, I have since learned a lot about pattern making and fitting clothing. Most brands, if you're lucky, the designer will fit the garment on a real fit model once before it goes into production. If the fit on something you buy is off, it's probably because it wasn't fitted correctly, Or it went into production before all of the errors were corrected. Luxury brands can afford to do three or four fittings to really perfect the fit, whereas lower priced brands, they might be fitting it once, or maybe never. They might just go straight to production. And, I mean, there are so many things that are involved in good fit, but that was really one thing that I, I wanted her to understand, is the way your body feels when you're wearing a well-fitted garment. It's magical, and you just can't get that at most of the price points that are out there.

AI assessment note: “when I say the fit was good, so, um, I have since learned”