The Exchanges

Q Wow. I know that you decided to, at a certain point, to go to the United States to continue your studies. You studied physics and chemistry in Dakar, but there was a nationwide student strike, and I guess you couldn't continue your studies, so you ended up Getting a visa to the United States, and you were supposed to study in Ohio, right?

A Uh-huh, in Cleveland, in a small college, yeah, in, you know, town called Burry, actually near, near Cleveland. I came here in 1989, and, ah, I knew a friend who lived in New York, so I had to land in New York and then take a bus from New York to Ohio. That was the plan. So he insisted that I stay in New York a couple weeks, and, you know, that was a great opportunity. Everyone wants to see New York at least once. And that changed everything. I'm still on my way to Ohio. I never made it there. I stayed in New York, and three days after I arrived, I got robbed, and I lost every single penny that I had. That was...

AI assessment note: “Uh-huh, in Cleveland, in a small college, yeah”

Q Before we talk about the business that grew around this, because that would eventually happen, I want to ask you a few more questions about fonio, because it is this grain that is, I guess it's really high in protein and amino acids, and also doesn't require a whole lot of water to grow, right?

A No. Fonio grows in an area called the Sahel, you know, Senegal is south of the Sahara. Yeah. And it's dry and arid, but Fogneaux grows so easily there. You know, it's like one of the fastest maturing grain that requires very little water. It's rain fed, but it, you know, it just requires the first rain. And after that, even if there was no other rain coming or the rain is inconsistent, like it's the case right now with climate change, Fogneaux is guaranteed to grow. There's a nickname for Fogneaux. They call it the lazy farmer's crop for that reason. Because what the farmers do is when the first rain comes, they just throw the seed. They don't even till the soil. They don't really do any work to the soil. They just throw the seeds, like broadcasting it, and then they can just go and sleep for two months and come back and harvest the fonyo. That's how easy it is to grow. And in addition to that, the most important part is the agriculture of fonyo helps to regenerate the soil because it has, it has deep roots that

AI assessment note: “it's like one of the fastest maturing grain that requires very little water.”

Q opened your first restaurant called Yulele, and, and you'd begin this journey as a restaurant owner, and then eventually a cookbook author, and, and from what I understand, for your first cookbook, you went to Senegal to research ideas for the book. Uh, and, and I guess during one of those trips, you rediscovered this grain called phonio, which you, you had eaten Kind of rarely as a child, right?

A Yeah, so I had eaten Fogneau on rare occasions when my parents would take me to visit my grandparents in the south of Senegal. So Fogneau is grown in that region in the south, in Casamas and Kedougou. Those are like the Fogneau areas of Senegal. But in Dakar, where I grew up, there was no Fogneau. So I never had forno growing up. So I'm now writing this book many years later, and we spent time with the women of my family, really. That was where, you know, I was getting the inspiration, and I wanted the book to be about that. And as I'm traveling in the south, and I'm tasting all these different flavors, and the forno came back, and it hit me, and I'm like, oh, wow, this grain is so delicate. And in that part of Senegal, they still consider it, they call it the most Delicious grain of all grains. That's like how they see Fonio. So I was like, I need to write about this grain. I need to bring this grain. I need to, to even include it in my menu.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, so I had eaten Fogneau on rare occasions when my parents would take me”

Q I've, I said this before we started recording, that I have made it. It's a little bit like, and help me out here, like, it's a cross between like couscous, like the fluffy lightness of couscous, and sort of A nutty, there's a nuttiness, but it's none of those things. It's not quinoa, it's not couscous, it's not a wheat, but it has that lightness. Is that fair to say?

A Yeah, it's fair to say it has the size of couscous. It's tiny like couscous and fluffy. It's even lighter than couscous. Because you know, when you eat couscous, you kind of feel heavy after. But with foigno, it's really, I mean, you can eat foigno and just go for a run right after. It digests really easily. And, uh, it has nuttiness. You're right. It's slightly nutty. And the, the, the other particularity of Fogno, which is really great is very neutral flavor. So that makes it very versatile. You cook Fogno with so many different flavors. It adapts to so many different sauces. My, my last cookbook was dedicated to Fogno. So I have lots of recipes from the whole journey of Fogno, you know, from desserts to baking, to, To savory dishes, to, I mean, fonio sushi, you know, I mean, there's like so many ways to use fonio.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, it's fair to say it has the size of couscous.”

Q Pierre, I, from what I've read, I mean, you were trained in a sort of European cooking styles, French, Italian, but many chefs who are trained in European traditions but don't have European backgrounds go on to open restaurants that reflect their own identities and their own backgrounds. When were you able to start exploring that culinary side of your world?

A Well, it started really, it came organically. First of all, you know, I, when I moved to New York, I was always craving for that food, the food I grew up eating. There was no restaurants, really, that serving that food, you know. So, at the restaurant, at Boom, the chef is interesting because he's doing a cuisine that's different. He's inspired by Southeast Asian cuisine, you know, and that's new in New York. We're like in the early nineties, mid nineties, and, and that cuisine has flavors that somehow Taking me back home. There's lots of fermentation. There's lots of acidity, you know, there's that freshness, you know, that, and the grain and all that. And at times when that was my turn to cook family meal, I would cook food from memory, dishes that my mom used to prepare.

AI assessment note: “at times when that was my turn to cook family meal, I would cook”

Q What kind of restaurant was it, by the way?

A The restaurant was French slash American cuisine, so, so the food was beautiful, you know, more beautiful than what I've ever seen before, and the fact that the chef was French trained too, he spoke a little French, and he loved, whenever I was in the kitchen, he loved to practice his French with me, so there's so many things that, that got me, you know, it Very lucky really. And that chef offered to, you know, he knew my story over time. He knew that I wanted to make extra money because I was still hoping to save money and go to Ohio. I was like, New York is not for me. This city is crazy. And he said, okay, so why don't you come and do extra shifts in the kitchen? You know, you could be a dishwasher. And I'm like, sure, I'll do the extra shift for the money, but I don't intend to stay in this, you know, this is too hard. And I hated washing dishes. You know, I hated it so much. I hated it, but it was a necessary first step, and from dishwasher, I went to, you know, when the prep guy is missing, they always call the dishwasher and give you the knife, and you start chopping.

AI assessment note: “The restaurant was French slash American cuisine”