The Exchanges

Q know, the things that Manduka sells, the accessories, And there's Lululemons and all the other brands out there that have really become multi, you know, million billion dollar businesses on the back of this, what originally began as this spiritual practice in, in rural India. I mean, of course, it's inevitable. It happens with, with so many things, but I don't know, do you have mixed feelings about, about that?

A I don't. I mean, I played a major role in that, you know, corporate transition of the traditions of yoga into a Western environment, and I felt my place was part of a lineage of innovators to make yoga more accessible for people with bad ankles on the floor, you know, bad knees on the floor, Whatever. To be able to get down to the floor and practice yoga and then stand up and feel safe with balance and stability. So the legacy of Manduka is that it was built by yoga teachers. I didn't have a sales department until year six, I think. So to me, that was, uh, something that I, to this day, feel really good about.

AI assessment note: “I don't. I mean, I played a major role in that”

Q guess you, I mean, once you started to see how people responded to that first shipment, you, what, like, you went to, to, to Germany. You went to that, that. Factory in Frankfurt that was essentially making mats for AstroTurf, but you kind of, what, you went to them and said, hey, could you, could you actually on your line, like, make me mats specifically for, for fitness and yoga?

A That's exactly what we did. There were a couple, you know, customer issues that we were starting to see we had to address. One of them was the weight, that these mats were heavy, which created a Some problems for smaller people, like carrying them, and we, you know, just worked with it in a way. We, we didn't back away from it. We did eventually, two years after we launched the black mat, we came out with this alternative mat that wasn't black, and it was half the weight. We also had a problem with slipping, and so the early mats weren't designed Tactically on the top surface to resist sweat, you know, to resist slipping. And so we, I went on that trip, uh, one of about six trips to Germany over the years just to meet and maintain relationship with. That first trip was addressing weight, color, and slip.

AI assessment note: “That's exactly what we did. There were a couple, you know, customer issues”

Q I mean, presumably this is, like, the late seventies. Presumably at that time, I mean, physical therapy obviously has changed, but I'm sure you were kind of given, like, a regimen of physical therapy to do, but, but this is, like, really long. Beef, obviously, when yoga is still really fringe. Was there a connection between your neck pain and coming across yoga, or was that just like totally random?

A Totally random. I was late. I'd been up till four a.m., went home, got a half an hour sleep, took off to class that I was late to around nine o'clock. And there's this door propped open, and for the life of me, I have no idea why I stopped, turned, pulled the door open, and walked in a step to see what was going on, and it was the craziest thing. For a kid from Fresno, no clue of anything other than kind of sports and, you know, family and friends, to go into this room full of Women and a female instructor doing yoga with no context for what I was seeing. Like, it was like I was on another planet.

AI assessment note: “Totally random. I was late. I'd been up till four a.m.”

Q Tell me about him. How'd you meet him?

A Sure. So Shandor is, uh, one of those, uh, Powerful, and also controversial, um, teachers of yoga, Western teachers of yoga, who lived at the time I met him in Australia, and he would come to New Zealand, uh, twice a year. It was the first male yoga teacher I had met after, at this point, I'd been practicing yoga for about five years. Um, it was Amazing, because he was an athlete, I was an athlete, but he did a yoga demonstration on the Friday night before the weekend workshop that just athletically was some of the most incredible things I'd ever seen a body do. Just, you know, pulling up into a handstand with no wall to balance on, you know, and just hanging out in a handstand like he's sitting on the couch, you know.

AI assessment note: “he would come to New Zealand, uh, twice a year.”

Q what was the, I mean, the name, Manduka, how did you, what, I mean, did, because they were just Pieces of material for AstroTurf. So how did you decide? I mean, it makes sense. You want to differentiate them if there were going to be other yoga mats. So how did you decide to use that name and to come up with a logo and, and then to brand them?

A So because Shandor introduced me to the mat, I, I wanted to find a name that kind of gave a little bit of acknowledgement to the roots of the mat, and so when I thought about words that Shandor used, Sanskrit words that might make a great word for a yoga mat company, especially a yoga mat company that has excellent grip on And, and obviously a frog came to mind, and I thought, well, what's the Sanskrit word for frog? And there was a word called Becca, and unfortunately, at that moment, there was a company that was starting to offer product called Becca Yoga Products, and so that name was out, and the other name was Manduka for frog, and the reason I like Manduka, and when I realized it, that was it, because Chandler's Hungarian, and when he says the word Manduka with his Hungarian accent, it was so funny to hear. It was just this, my Hungarian accent isn't very good, but Manduka. And so, every time he would say that, I'd giggle, and I don't, it was subconscious. I don't know why I was giggling. Sometimes he even called me on it. He's like, what are you laughing at? Not so funny. And so, for me, yes, this is the perfect word.

AI assessment note: “and the other name was Manduka for frog, and the reason I like Manduka”

Q Hmm. But, I mean, did you, were you able to get into the program? I mean, did you, I mean, I know that you would go back and forth for some time, but did, were you able to actually stay and, yeah, participate?

A Yeah. So, on the last day of this ceremony, I went to the school secretary and I said, I have to leave tomorrow, but I'd really like to stay. And he said, Listen, I'm going to make an exception for you, and I come back and see me again tomorrow, and I'll have, uh, the right, uh, permission, let's say, for you to attend classes, and so I showed up the next day for that first morning class at six a.m., so for six days a week, Monday through Saturday, I was at six a.m. yoga class, which was two and a half hours long, and then it In the afternoons, I would, Iyengar had a personal library downstairs that he allowed students to go down and use, and so the afternoons were spent in the library reading, and then I would, after reading, I would go up and do my own practice, and that was, for me, that year of doing yoga six days a week in India was what, um, It transformed me, you know, like it changed my, uh, intensity, let's call it. Uh, I, I joke about this sometimes. Before I started doing yoga, I was a type A, or actually I'm a, I was a type triple A, you know, like beyond A. And what that year in India did for me was completely transform that mentality of doing yoga. And in a way, reminded me of the power in being, and being present in particular.

AI assessment note: “I'm going to make an exception for you... permission, let's say, for you to attend classes”

Q you're, you go to two mats, sort of a lighter mat. Something else happens, which is your mentor, you know, this guy that you practice with, right, Shandor, I guess at a certain point, he kind of Pushes you away. He says, you've got to go on. What happens? Like, I mean, you're his student, and what, he encourages you to, to stop practicing with him? What, what, what happened?

A So, after 20 years of being his student, but also 10 years as being his North American business manager, you know, the relationship was solid. He was the best man in my first wedding, but, I mean, there were signs that things were changing, and I was not really paying attention to them, because I thought our relationship was solid. What I see in hindsight now, Is he realized in maybe my personality something lacking, and this devotion to the guru, and maybe it was even starting from my Catholic upbringing, there was something, um, Broken in that way of relating to myself. And in a nutshell, I think what he gave me is now what I consider the ultimate gift. Because ultimately in yoga and in business, frankly, in a way, we all have that moment where we confront the Let's call it the inner teacher. Like, who knows what's best for our lives? It's not outside ourselves. It's within ourselves. And if I'd have listened on a business level, if I'd have listened to the advice that I was getting from these experts, I would have never started Manduka. And likewise, if I'd had been a follower of Shandor for the last 20 years, I wouldn't be here talking to you, I don't think, to be honest.

AI assessment note: “What I see in hindsight now, Is he realized in maybe my personality something lacking”

Q I mean, that is, you know, already that, I mean, there's an argument to be made that because the price point was so high, it did attract attention, right? People are like, well, wow, if it's so expensive, it must be really special.

A I think it worked. Um, the one, as I started to ramp this business up, I, I actually, a friend of mine was a business consultant, and I hired him. I said, listen, I want to hire you. I want to get your expertise. Here's the business model. And I said, an indestructible product, lifetime guarantee, you know, one color, heavy. He said, you're insane. Don't do it. There's no built-in obsolescence. There's nothing. It's a dead end. Don't do it. And I said, here's your money. Thank you for the advice. And, you know, and then I moved on because I knew that it was filling a void. I mean, for years, first three years, I was the only person in that space.

AI assessment note: “I think it worked.”