The Exchanges

Q I, I, I know that your mother was a model, and so, so she would do like catalogs and, and things like that?

A Well, it's funny. My mother started modeling when she was 17. She did some advertising. She was sort of a runway model in local fashion shows, and I think because she was tall, she said she was always the bride in a fashion show. So she wore a lot of bridal gowns. And then she was sort of modeling in showrooms, so she was on Seventh Avenue. In the fashion district, and then by the time I was four or five, Revlon, the cosmetic company, they opened a place here in New York that was called the House of Revlon, and I think it was meant to be their sort of salon, and they needed sort of the in-house hair models. And I think she wanted a more steady kind of gig, so to speak.

AI assessment note: “She did some advertising. She was sort of a runway model in local fashion shows”

Q but in your mind, did you think this is really just this kind of holding pattern before I make my own mark? Like, or were you intimidated by the idea of trying to become a fashion designer? I mean, you know, you knew the names of the famous people. You knew who they were. Did you think I could do that too, or were you, did you have some self-doubt?

A I, you know, I don't want to sound that I was overly confident, but even though I didn't finish school, even though I didn't really know the mechanics of, of really how the fashion industry truly worked, I knew that I wanted to do my own thing, have my own business, my own collection, um, and I had a very defined point of view. Funny enough, at the time, I was still at Lothar's, And I had started designing the clothes that were in the store. I was also doing the visual merchandising, so I was doing the windows. The staff reported to me. The selling reporting came in to me. So, you know, this was a lot for someone who was 20 years old. But I still, for a minute, thought maybe I should go to work for someone else. You know, I'll learn something if I go to work for someone else. And we had a lot of Fashion insiders shop in the store, and there was a woman at the time who was a designer who I admired, who she shopped in the store, her name was Adrie, and Adrie, I said to her, I said, you know, I think that there is a possibility that I could go to work for Halston. And, and I, I love what he does, and I said, you know, maybe that would be great experience. And she said to me, no, you know what you want to do. I can see it in the clothes here at Lothar's. And she said, just wait for the moment, and the opportunity will come, and you, at that point, should do your own thing.

AI assessment note: “I knew that I wanted to do my own thing, have my own business”

Q Do you remember what the piece was? Was it, was it trousers? Was it a dress? Was it?

A I did a lot of leather and suede back then, and I think I had this long black suede, at the time we said gaucho pant, uh, that had an overskirt and this big, wide obi belt, very dramatic, very expensive for And everyone in the room looked at me and said, could you excuse us, and could you leave the room for a minute? I thought, okay, this is over. So I left the room, and about two minutes later, uh, Don Mello said, we, uh, really think the clothes are terrific, and we think they're perfect for Bergdorf Goodman, and we... We want to be the only store in New York to carry the collection for at least a year. And, uh, we'd like you to come back to us and tell us, you know, uh, is there anything you need from us? And I, of course, I mean, I had no idea how I was going to do any of this. I didn't know what to say, what to do. Yeah. So I called a family friend, was a designer named John Anthony, and I called him and he said, well, make your wish list. And I said, what does that mean? And he said, well, he said, what do you need to succeed with this? So I said, well, I'd love to have windows on Fifth Avenue. And he said, well, that should go on your list. I said, oh, I'd love an ad in the New York Times. And he said, what else? And I said, well, I think I want to do a personal appearance or a trunk show so I can meet the clients. He said, add that to the list. And then I said, well, I …

AI assessment note: “I think I had this long black suede, at the time we said gaucho pant”

Q How many pieces, by the way, how many pieces of each garment did you have to make?

A Um, I probably produced anywhere from I would say a dozen to three dozen at the max, but, you know, two dozen of most things. I had people sewing in my apartment. I was, you know, dragging bolts of fabric in taxis and up the elevator, and we were cutting the clothes, uh, all of the fabric and all, we were cutting everything. My apartment was so small, we used a friend's apartment upstairs to cut things out, and And, and somehow then I think, I didn't even really understand how people delivered clothes to a store. I didn't know that, you know, there was UPS. You know, I wanted to hand deliver all of the clothes. I was afraid they'd wrinkle and crease. So I, I delivered them in the backseat of my aunt's car.

AI assessment note: “I probably produced anywhere from I would say a dozen to three dozen”

Q Wow. But was that common for a store, a small boutique, to have its own line of clothing?

A In, in-house designer? No, not at all. I mean, you know, was I in the right place at the right time? The people who owned the store, they knew that I, you know, understood the customers, and I was a designer. So the next thing I knew, I was set up with a little workshop in Manhattan. So I first, you know, for the first time in my life, I had people who were Making the patterns, uh, following my sketches, and actually making the clothes, so I started buying fabric, and buttons, and zippers, and I mean, it was literally, I kind of learned about being reactive, so I don't know, if, if my windows had colorful dresses, and it was, you know, April, and I had colorful dresses in the window, and suddenly, um, It started raining cats and dogs every day, and it was pouring rain. I said, okay, well, you know what? People are going to need raincoats. So I would literally run and buy some material and figure out what kind of cool raincoats was I going to make, and I would put those in the window. If they were successful, we'd make more. So it was sort of a laboratory, which was, you know, an incredible way to learn.

AI assessment note: “In, in-house designer? No, not at all.”

Q Yeah. So, and I think that's the key, right? That cross-generational brand. Like, if you can hit that, if you can get those three generations wearing your line, like, that's kind of like the holy grail, I guess, of fashion.

A Definitely. It's, it's also years later, of course, when I was doing television, I was doing Project Runway, I would sometimes listen to some of the designers on Project Runway, and they'd say, well, you know, I don't really design for people that size, or I don't design for women that old. I was always perplexed listening to them, thinking, well, wait a minute, if you're good at what you do, you're a problem solver. You're solving the puzzle. So you should be able to Design in such a way that you get your message across, but at the same time, you have that possibility to be democratic, whether that's just in size or age or, or even how a woman or a man puts themselves together, you know, because not everyone wears the same thing the same way. They want to be able to put their own spin on it.

AI assessment note: “you have that possibility to be democratic, whether that's just in size or age”

Q of the world you inhabited, were you, I mean, would you, would you have considered yourself a socially active kid? Like, did you have lots of friends? Or did you get teased? I mean, you were into fashion, and obviously you're a gay man, Today, but, but back in the seventies, it was a different world. What do you, what do you remember about just being you at that time?

A I, the funny thing is, although I, here I was, sitting and sketching women's fashions, uh, totally obsessed also with theater and music, so, you know, I'm definitely not on the Little League team. I was obsessed with how I was dressed. You know, I would have spent my last dime on getting something that was Probably more outlandish than anyone else was wearing. There were comments for sure, but at the same time, I don't know, I think my family imbued me with this sense of confidence that, you know what, you're not the same as everyone else, and that's actually going to be a plus. And, uh, so I'm very lucky that I had that situation. You know, a lot of kids don't feel that in their home. I think for a lot of kids, you know, if they made a, a proclamation that they wanted to be a fashion designer, their family might say, well, what is that? What does it mean? What does that mean? I didn't, I didn't have that situation.

AI assessment note: “There were comments for sure, but at the same time, I don't know”

Q right? But was there a conscious decision with these new partners? Like, okay, we need, like, Soccer fans in England wearing Coors shirts, and we also need to appeal to, you know, high fashion customers willing to pay 1800 dollars, but how do we cultivate that sense of, um, luxury, you know, in, in less expensive streetwear? Was there, was there, is there a playbook on how to do that?

A I think the big playbook is never talk down to the customer. So whether it's a t-shirt or an evening gown, It's thoughtfully and intelligently designed, and we also have to remember, in a, in a world that is casual, the richest person in the world does not fill their entire closet with 1800 dollar jackets. And vice versa, someone who has a very casual life and doesn't have that kind of money to spend, they do have the pieces that they buy that are their splurge piece. So, you know, you might on a daily basis say, you know what, I live in leggings or jeans, but I'm gonna sort of stretch and buy the handbag and the watch that make my jeans and leggings feel special.

AI assessment note: “I think the big playbook is never talk down to the customer.”

Q and to become a fashion designer, and you did. You went to the Fashion Institute of Technology in New York. But you were only there for, I should say only, but you were there for about nine months before you dropped out. Tell me about why. I mean, did you get there and say, you know, I don't, I think I just want to start working. Like, what, what happened?

A Well, I think that I, I thought that I would do the expected trajectory. I'd go to school. I'd get a job when I graduated, hopefully working for a designer who I admired. I'd learn the sort of inner workings of how it all worked. I'd pick up pins. I'd fetch coffee. And while I was in school, I was working at a boutique and On Fifth Avenue and 57th Street called Lothar's, and I got a part-time job there selling The clothes that they carried at the time, which were sort of, uh, I don't know, you maybe call it the gap for the uber rich. It was jeans, t-shirts, and, and down jackets all made in France. A lot of it tie-dyed. And we had remarkable celebrity clients from around the world. So, you know, we had Cher and Diana Ross and Goldie Hawn, Rudolf Nureyev, Jackie Kennedy. I mean, it was amazing. And I was 18 years old.

AI assessment note: “while I was in school, I was working at a boutique”

Q managing all of that, takes on a new gig. You were hired. By Celine, the, the, the French fashion house to be their, their in-house designer. Um, and obviously a big deal. You're an American designer. This is a French fashion house owned by the multinational LVMH. Um, how did that work? I mean, you had Michael Kors as your business, and then you also became an employee of Celine.

A Well, fashion sometimes is, is like, it's really an athletic endeavor. And, you know, you're getting to the next step. Can I lift more weights? What, what can I handle? And, uh, the last thing that had ever crossed my mind would, would have been that I was going to design a collection in Paris and have a fashion show in Paris. And it was, it was really nothing I ever thought of. But I thought, you know what, I owe it to myself to try this. It's definitely, uh, a lot of juggling. Also, I was, for the first time, My eyes opened at Celine to the power of accessories, um, handbags and footwear, um, which was the bulk of their business.

AI assessment note: “I owe it to myself to try this. It's definitely, uh, a lot of juggling.”

Q investment. I mean, they would make A lot of money off that investment. But now you are, I mean, you are still a minority shareholder in your company, but it's, you know, you've got bosses and, and there are expectations and, and how did that change how you operated that? Did that, I mean, did that deliberate you to do, or did that put more pressure on you to deliver?

A Well, I mean, once again, if you do the same thing every day with no variance, maybe some people are very comfortable with that. I think I was ready and curious to try new things, um, and with people who are experienced and curious the same as myself. Now, are there bumps in the road? Absolutely. You know, I, I remember, um, I remember the first, uh, I think it was my first spring season with Michael Michael Kors, and the women's, uh, apparel that season, I had always done, for Michael Kors, we made a lot of sweaters. So I had a lot of sweaters on the collection, and And all these sweaters get shipped all across America to department stores, and they look great. I, I think they look great. And they end up not selling very well, and I couldn't understand why don't they sell well. And then someone said to me, well, they're not machine washable. And I said, what do you mean? You know, sweaters, most sweaters are not machine washable. What's the big deal?

AI assessment note: “I think I was ready and curious to try new things”

Q ever get anxiety about, I mean, you went through a bankruptcy, you know, in the nineties. And when you're much smaller, but now, like, are you at a point where you're just so big that you are not worried that you, you, you feel like this brand is, you know, enduring and here to stay and nothing can kind of, you know, hurt it or damage it or topple it?

A Well, I think that, you know, uh, after 40, what are we? Oh my gosh. 42 years. 42? Yeah. 42 years. 42 years, uh, we are, um, definitely firmly cemented, uh, as a brand into so many people's lives and in their closets, and, you know, I've been with friends where, I don't know, we could be arriving somewhere, and a car is waiting, and they say hello to a friend thinking that the friend is Michael Kors, or I've been at the airport with TSA. I had A TSA officer asked me what it was like to work for Michael Kors. And I said, what do you mean? And she said, how long have you been there? And I said, my whole life. And she said, oh, and then she looked again, and she said, oh, you, you are Michael Kors. Like, there's a person. And I said, yes. So, at a certain point, you get firmly cemented as a brand, but there's definitely a person here, and a designer here, and an individual who's still, you know, still wrapped up in the thick of it, and, and, and I enjoy doing it.

AI assessment note: “we are, um, definitely firmly cemented, uh, as a brand into so many people's lives”