The Exchanges

Q to, um, to a secure and stable life. And your parents, as you mentioned, were doctors. They immigrated with you from India when you were a kid. Um, what did they, what did they make of your filmmaking obsession? I mean, at, I mean, obviously, they eventually supported it because you went to film school, but, but did they try to kind of discourage you from it at the beginning?

A First of all, it should be known that at that time, and maybe it's similar now, I'd have to talk to a twenty-year-old Indian child who wants to go in the arts, but at that time, me saying I want to go to film school was exactly the same if I had said, I'm gonna become a goth rock and roll star, and I'm gonna begin today. If I had just said that, I said, Mom, I'm gonna wear makeup, I'm gonna spike my hair, I'm gonna wear the collars, And I'm going to scream into the microphone. It would have been met with the same kind of, uh, uh, okay, well, that's insane. Uh, and my dad reacted with classic Asian dadness, which was he just became silent and didn't, you know, just disappointed beyond belief and just ignored this. And then my, my mom, who I think fancied herself an artist when she was younger, obviously never had the opportunity to follow any of this. Uh, was encouraging in a kind of follow you thing, you know, but really I think there was, what's going to happen? And with regard to the college thing, I really only applied to NYU's Tisch School early, and at that time that was unusual. I was the only kid who went and got in early and said, I'm applying to one school, this is it, I'm just going to make films.

AI assessment note: “my dad reacted with classic Asian dadness, which was he just became silent”

Q and that's the same story with an entrepreneur. We've done Airbnb and Instagram and Slack and all those stories, and it's the same story. There's a point where you are unknown. Howard Schultz, unknown. Nobody would take his call, right? Because who's going to say, oh, you're Howard Schultz at Starbucks. He was Howard Schultz who had one store called Starbucks. How did you convince people To help you out?

A Well, that first one was friends and bartering, and can we borrow this equipment, and my uncle giving 5000, and my aunt giving 2000, and it was like, you know, putting it together, and when it was all said, then we sell it to cable and HBO and things for just the same amount of money that we spent on it, and we gave it back, and it was like, you know, basically like a wash, a loan over those years, but it was terrifying, right? And you're not making any money, and it gave me a chance to go to film festivals, I mean, that story that you're asking me about, the first film, keeps on happening over and over and over in your career, at least for me, because I try to do original films, and so there's this pull to go into the system, but for whatever reason, I feel like every time I want to stay outside the system a bit and try something a little bit different, and so you're, almost every single time, it feels like that. I mean, when I did the The visit, which was many, many, many years later, I put a mortgage on the house and did the whole thing all over again.

AI assessment note: “that first one was friends and bartering, and can we borrow this equipment”

Q also the child of immigrants, and I, I know that story so well. It's so true. Um, Knight, your, your work typically explores Pretty dark themes, right? Like death and grief and physical isolation and paranormal activity. And you are, I've read so much about you. You're such a joyful person. You have a wonderful family, and tell me how those themes came to be what you became known for.

A If we hung out, we were having beers or whatever, you, I'm, I'm a little bit mischievous. So that, that mischievous side of like making you laugh and, uh, you know, playing tricks on you, that would be how our relationship would be. And that just kind of transfers into playing with the audience and making them laugh, or playing tricks on them, or, ooh, I love when they ooh and ah, or when they, they can't believe what they just saw, or that was unexpected. It makes me happy, and, and, and so it's a playfulness about it. I think the spirituality is me, a part of me that's always, I'm, I'm constantly reading books and trying to understand things, and, but I do think the inherent spirituality of the Indian culture Kind of morphed from my grandma saying, you know, this house is haunted, or she puts like a, nails a chicken head outside the house because of some bad thing that was, she thinks a curse has been put on her house. This kind of, it's just normal in the culture to believe in those things. That kind of moved over and became aliens and comic books and comic book characters and stuff.

AI assessment note: “That kind of moved over and became aliens and comic books and comic book characters”

Q I do want to ask you about the streaming question. I know that you were very vocal when Warner decided to drop 17 of its major releases. I think on the same day they released them, made them available to stream for a month, and you and many other filmmakers were really upset about it. Can you explain why you think that decision by Warner is so detrimental to creators?

A Yeah, it was more the how, that they unilaterally did it without talking to the filmmakers who had every They are just as passionate as I am about this movie-going experience. They thought they were making one art form, and then they were told, hey, it's mostly not going to be that way, or at all, and, uh, that's a very profound thing to change on somebody, that, hey, we're not even doing the art form that you signed up for to do. Every decision you're making about how the sound moves through the theater and all, that's not gonna be the case, because it's gonna be in a home In a home theater or on a TV or on a laptop. It should have been filmmaker by filmmaker's decision of how to handle this here. If they wanted to put it out that way, great, everybody comes to decision, or if they wanted to wait, and if the studio could handle that financial burden of waiting for a beat, you know, to put it out when it was safer, those conversations just needed to be had, and they felt like they were prioritizing their other business. And willing to undermine the movie-going experience. That's what it felt like. Their value system had switched, which is not great for those of us who movie-going is, is religion.

AI assessment note: “they unilaterally did it without talking to the filmmakers”

Q Some of your super fans know that you do show little clips of them on some of your DVDs that you released. What kind of stories were you telling?

A Well, I need to convey the level of lack of talent that was shown in these pieces. Staggering. Like that, if you're looking for like a morsel of creative instinct or originality, it's void of all of those things. It's just, just absolutely me copying Copying anything that I've seen in the worst possible way, you know, in an ineffectual way, and finding that ineffective, and finding that not satisfying, kind of pretending I'm making a horror movie, pretending I'm making Raiders of the Lost Ark, pretending I'm making a James Bond movie. It's farcical when you see them, but it was funny, I skipped the wonderful part of it, which is the creating. I, I was mimicking rather than creating And so it had none of the joy, and I think once I started to make up things that were original, it felt so different than that.

AI assessment note: “pretending I'm making a horror movie, pretending I'm making Raiders of the Lost Ark”

Q It sounds to me like you sort of absorb a tremendous amount of pressure, right, before everything you put out. Is that because you have had so much success, and the expectations are so high, and you want to meet those expectations? Where does it come from?

A Gosh, um, I definitely have a healthy, by healthy I mean unhealthy, um, anxiety about what could go wrong, and what's gonna happen, and that's the opposite of where you need to be emotionally when you create, so the only relief I've ever had in my life, this is what I was telling to, uh, my head of my company yesterday, I said, you know, I've been anxious a lot, and I said, you know what the amazing thing is, the only thing that makes me not anxious is Creating. It turns out the thing that I do to ground and be centered is my job. So it's like that beautiful thing that you, the thing that you love to do is your job. So all this other stuff, to be honest, I've learned is irrelevant. How many people did come on the weekend, and what did the New York Times think, and what did that fan think, and oh, that other guy made that much, or did that, or oh, the cover, they offered you the cover of this or that. None of that matters. Honestly, to me, inside, it's after we're done the interview, and I sit down, and I can figure out, um, what happens after he falls down. I'm talking about a character in this new movie, um, hits the ground, and hits his head, and what they're all about to do. If I can figure that out today, I'll be so happy. So, so happy.

AI assessment note: “So all this other stuff, to be honest, I've learned is irrelevant.”

Q Yeah. And do you, I, I hesitate to ask, but do you have a favorite or one that you kind of go back to in your mind that you're particularly proud of?

A Um, as the mischievous kid, I really enjoy the reactions. I was, when we were, I have an audio recording of The Visit in the movie theater, um, and there's a thing that happened, for those of you that haven't watched The Visit, I'm not going to ruin it, but there's a moment where something is revealed, and the audience's reaction is so vocal. It's, it was like the, I, I thought the theater was going to erupt, These are just more favorite moments of me being in the movie theaters with them, with, with the audiences when these things happen, and then the first time I screened Split, it was in Austin, Texas at a film festival, Fantastic Fest, and when it got to the last scene, there was music that comes in prior to the last scene, and the music is from a previous movie, and soon as those first notes happened, there was a guy like, I snuck in and hit, and I saw a guy in there, And he was sitting back and he's watching and the music came in and he was like, And he just started sitting up, and he started looking at everybody, and everybody, there was this murmur, went through the whole crowd, and then at the end, when, when the reveal happened of who was sitting there at the counter, at the end of Split, the, I thought they were gonna tear the seats out of the theater, when there were people, like, putting their hands up in the air, like, like a roller coaster, like they were going d…

AI assessment note: “These are just more favorite moments of me being in the movie theaters”

Q I love this question from Gregory Voight. Um, I hope I'm pronouncing that right, Gregory. Gregory asks, when things are going wrong during the script writing process, um, you know, and it edits not clicking, like what are the steps you take to make it better, to improve on it?

A What happens is when you, when you, you get stuck, like you're doing, you're essentially, you're betraying the story, but you don't know how you're betraying it. So you can feel the damage. You just don't understand it. This isn't working. So any ways that you can say it out loud or put it on a paper, This is not working. This feels so redundant, because this, and this, you'll even, as you're saying the problem, there's, the answer will be kind of in there, embedded in there. You're going, this is redundant. Oh, redundant. Oh, wait a minute. What is the, the scene is about, oh, why are we doing this whole sequence? I already did it before, or this isn't the right time to do that, um, or I don't really know her, and, I keep putting her down, and that's why I'm not, I hate writing her, because I don't know her. It's just a blurry, like, empty space that I'm calling her, and it's generic, and I don't like that, and so, then you, so you'll know that, and you'll go, well, what was my hope for her? Well, my hope for her would, that she would be like my mom, and she would have this sense of anger, but she's never been connected to her own anger. Like, you'll write something, you go, oh, someone who doesn't realize they're angry. Ok, great. And I can write that.

AI assessment note: “any ways that you can say it out loud or put it on a paper”

Q but at normal times, you must be pulled and tugged in different directions from the business people outside of the company in the Hollywood studios and But you're also the creative. You're the person. You're the reason why people want to distribute your films or work with you. So how do you balance the creative side of what you do and the business side of what you have to do?

A This is trial and error where we've gotten to what I'm about to say. There's certain principles that now are absolutely essential, like no dysfunctional geniuses. So your dysfunctional genius thinks I'm going to go to somebody else to help me do the composition or do this or that or editing or Put the, the, the production design together, whatever it is. Protecting your process. The single greatest thing that we have come to understand in this. So you never say yes to anything that would compromise the process. So if they said, hey, do you want to do this incredible XYZ project with this superstar who has developed this screenplay, right? And It's gonna shoot in this place, you know, and you're going, well, I don't have the ability to, to iterate in the way that, that is safe for me. That, that would be an almost guaranteed no, because I can't guarantee that I can make a zillion mistakes and figure it out on my own. And so we're heavily protecting the process. And so if you look at the, the things that I'm making and the partners that I'm making it with, they're super healthy. They allow me to have this process. And what is the goal? The goal, like what is success, right? So it's not a monetary thing. I believe that the monetary will come if you do this other thing. And if it doesn't, it's still fine, but the monetary will come if you build the strongest connection with the aud…

AI assessment note: “So you never say yes to anything that would compromise the process.”

Q bit of a window into where your ideas come from, but, I mean, you've got infinite ideas. You just mentioned that you're working on, on trying to figure out what happens after he hits his head on the ground, right? So how do you find them, and how do you give yourself the space to come up with ideas, and to come up with a whole story, a whole world?

A You know what? The space is such a great thing that you said. I wonder if when you see this sinus curve of success, failure, success, failure, and a lot of people go success, failure, and never return, right? There's inherent pulls that happen because when you have nothing, you become really clear about what's important and what are your values. You're very clear about them, and then you get up and you start to have success, and there's this Uh, accretion of good decision making that gets you here, and then you have all these distractions that are starting to bend you and, and distract you from what you knew before, and it starts to make bad decisions, and you start to, to come like that, and the space that anonymity gave you, gives you at the beginning, um, the space that I then again saw during the pandemic, um, Where I was just, had to stay at home and just sit there. There was no, there was no press tours. I'm not going on, on The Tonight Show. I'm not going to Europe to open up the film there. I'm not, you know, I'm not doing this screening and that screening.

AI assessment note: “the space that anonymity gave you... the space that I then again saw during the pandemic”

Q Knight, we've got tons of questions that have come in. I promise to get to some of them. So let me, let me see if I can get to a few of them. This is from Pilar Fitzgerald. Pilar asks, What advice do you have for aspiring writers and directors of color who want to break into the industry which is largely dominated by white men?

A You know, I've been doing a lot of soul searching myself about this particular subject because I think many of the things I experienced from 21 years old till today, I just accept it as my particular Path. That the, the headwinds, and the resistance, and the things of, wow, that was, that was really harsh, and wow, that, that wasn't very helpful, and wow, huh, uh, all these things that, that feeling, it's, I'm coming to terms with what, what it meant to me, you know, uh, and how much, how much it became a part of my identity, the things that, that this person is asking. Look, I, I think this is a really, the best time it's ever been for that question to be asked, because I believe in everybody's individuality is their power. So the fact that I am, was born in Pondicherry, India and live outside Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, you know, and I, Wear flannel shirts. I love cheeseburgers, but my mom has a puja, you know, at her house. All that mixed together is why I think people connect with my voice around the world. Um, we'll call it the immigrant flavor that that's coming from that. That's redefining, uh, American storytelling is each of our responsibilities to do, you know, to bring that to, it isn't like, Hey, I'm angry. I don't have a seat at the table. It's not only bring your chair to the table, it's make the table longer. That's your response. You'll go add to the table, you …

AI assessment note: “make the table longer. That's your response. You'll go add to the table”

Q I'm going to combine two questions, a question from Anna Young and Jared Jones. Anna asks, as king of plot twists, which one are you most proud of? And Jared asks, does your reputation of being the plot twist guy get on your nerves?

A Well, you know, it's funny, even as you asked it, there is a certain kind of derivative quality to that that is, um, frustrating, I would guess. I would say more, more than anything else, because I would say, you know, spirituality, the pervasive nature of kind of talking about spirituality is, is just as much there, um, I, I don't look at it as a kind of a fancy dance move or something like that. Like, okay, now I'm going to do the moonwalk, everybody. Here we go. You know, it's, that's not it. It's a points of view and how to talk about points of view in the structure of storytelling and not understanding why, why is she acting that way? Why is she acting that way? Oh my gosh, she's acting that way because of that. You know, that kind of thing. I love characters realizing things. And so if I'm doing my job right as storyteller, you are with that character. As they realize this thing that happens. I really enjoy that. I mean, look, I'm, I enjoy, um, feeling, feeling emotions and intellectual thoughts that are unexpected, that I didn't expect to feel that way about, and when I'm, whenever I'm reading or learning, a painting can do that, a book can do that, make me feel this kind of, um, Epiphany.

AI assessment note: “there is a certain kind of derivative quality to that that is, um, frustrating”