The Exchanges

Q learning about this kind of brand. And I, I read that like, you know, you're doing this job at Chanel and you're, you're kind of focused on it, but you still, you had like little side hustles. Like you, you had like a couple of little businesses, like a hat Box business, and, and then you started a t-shirt brand, like, what, what, tell me about that, what was that?

A So, I always had businesses on the side, um, I like to paint, and my mom had bought these boxes, they were cardboard recyclable boxes, and they were kind of, they were called hat boxes, but I used them as storage boxes, and I was painting them, and friends of mine were saying they wanted them, and I thought, oh, I should sell them, and so I did my own, I created my own website. I learned HTML, like, kind of, website building for dummies. Um, I bought the website domain, sassystorage.com, and started selling them online out of my apartment, and I did that for a little while, and then I realized I didn't really know what I was doing, so I moved on.

AI assessment note: “my mom had bought these boxes, they were cardboard recyclable boxes”

Q We'll get there. But in in 2002, when you guys sort of sat down and said, we let's just focus on how did you focus on Instead of having a store, focusing on cleaning products. Do you remember how you got to that, that decision?

A Well, we went away from the service quickly when we realized that we didn't have the infrastructure. We visited a local dry cleaner, um, a green cleaners, where we took a tour of their facilities, and we were trying to partner with them, and it just was way over our heads. And At the time, we were, um, both of us were traveling a lot for our jobs, and I would, my first stop would be the local pharmacies, the local grocery stores, to find out what products and scents that they had that we didn't have. And Gwen had that same passion. We would buy detergents, not just detergents, but deodorants, and baby cologne, and fragrances and products from all over the world when we would travel. And, um, We were noticing these different trends and, and things that, and found products that were for delicates that we didn't have in the U.S. that we were using and testing on our Chanel items and on our cashmere.

AI assessment note: “we went away from the service quickly when we realized that we didn't have”

Q I guess Bergdorf Goodman was your first big client to say, all right, we'll, we'll, we'll put this up there. How did you get into Bergdorf Goodman?

A Well, first I spoke with the lingerie buyer, um, because I, we, we were selling delicate wash, so this is a product that was very commonly found for women for washing lingerie, and then I was able to navigate, once I had credibility with the lingerie buyer, I was able to look at Being with the cashmere buyer, and then ultimately with the beauty buyer, which is where everyone would want to be, you know, as far as selling a product like that. And the beauty buyer at the time loved the brand, loved the idea, and, you know, they had an exclusive. We gave them an exclusive for six months, um, to be the only people selling the laundress, and this worked out really well.

AI assessment note: “first I spoke with the lingerie buyer... then ultimately with the beauty buyer”

Q So you quit your job, and you launched this, this thing, and, um, was it like, you know, gangbusters? Was it, you know, just a frenzy to buy your stuff? Like, all of a sudden, everybody going for the laundress, or was it kind of more like crickets?

A Definitely not a frenzy. Um, it was really difficult to get people on board. Um, we had to, I mean, there was, there were moments when I made a list of stores to call, and I would be calling and calling and calling, and people wouldn't call me back, so I would go to the store to meet the buyer. And we're talking about boutiques now, the smaller boutiques, because that is the majority of our business. Um, it was really the bulk of how the brand was built. I actually, there's a store in the West Village that I, that we really wanted to be in because the positioning was really good for our brand, and he refused to call me back. So I showed up with the products, and I spent the whole day there, and I said, just let me sell the product for you, and you don't have to take it after, I just want to show you that this is where our product should be, and ultimately he's one of our best clients in, in New York.

AI assessment note: “Definitely not a frenzy. Um, it was really difficult to get people on board.”

Q What were you learning? Were you learning about the business of, of apparel, or the science of textiles, or both?

A Both, yeah. We were learning about, we were in a lab burning different fibers and finding out what the reaction was, and different And, um, understanding the, the chemical makeup of, um, what cellulose is and, and cotton fibers and, um, really the technique, the, the scientific side of it. And then the other courses were around retail math and how to, you know, for more of a business side of it. I also did an independent study in color theory and then art history and sort of fashion history too. Um, So understanding trends and forecasting. So it was a, it was a mix of everything that you would need to know to set yourself up if, you know, if you want to go into more of the scientific side of it or the business side or design.

AI assessment note: “Both, yeah. We were learning about, we were in a lab burning different fibers”

Q And you went to this professor and you said what?

A We, well, we sent her an email and asked her, told her we had an idea, and we wanted to talk to her about, um, creating detergents. We called it FaberCare. And, um, she was over the moon, wrote us back immediately, and said, absolutely, let me know when you want to meet. And so we quickly scheduled our time. We spent a weekend up in Ithaca. Um, when we arrived into her office, we, well, we arrived with two huge bags of detergents, again, back to that collection of detergents that we had been buying over many years of during our travels. Um, so from bleach and detergent from Argentina, from France, from Greece, um, And some American brands and things that we had collected and we liked or things that we were questioning because we didn't know what the ingredients said. We just didn't know what that meant. Um, and she had on her table in her office books stacked so high and sticky notes coming out of the books. And she said, where do you want to begin?

AI assessment note: “told her we had an idea, and we wanted to talk to her about, um, creating detergents.”

Q And, and by the way, what is the problem with dry cleaning? I mean, does it destroy, does it, did it destroy clothes? I mean, besides the, the expense, I mean, what was your argument for, you know, dry, your, your stuff being better than dry cleaning?

A Yeah. So ultimately the, the chemicals in dry cleaning are, are not great for you, for the environment or for the clothing. Um, especially the clothing, it tent, it leaves, um, it's not even really cleaning it. It's a solution that will take care of, um, stains and it cleans it, but it's not really taking out odor. So it's not pro and it's not properly preserving the fiber. So Ultimately, for an example, is when you're dry cleaning a sweater versus washing it, the dry cleaner will strip all the natural oils of the yarn, whereas washing it will bring out all the natural oils and keep it nice and fluffy and soft, and the reason why we love cashmere. So those were things, and even with a silk fabric, um, it wasn't really the best way to ultimately preserve, and it degrades fabric over time, over time.

AI assessment note: “the chemicals in dry cleaning are, are not great for you, for the environment”

Q And, and so did you start to think, I mean, when did you start to think first, not about the business you would eventually do, but just about maybe, maybe, maybe starting a business? When, do you remember what, what, some of the ideas you had in your mind?

A Yeah, I mean, Gwen and I both wanted to start a business together, and so that's when we started getting, we started thinking together and coming up with ideas of what to do. Um, we had a fashion brand idea, but then we kind of, you know, fashion is tough because it's tough to, to chase the trends. It's tough to, um, you need a lot of capital for production, and we, um, Put that aside. We saw, you know what, we like fashion, but I don't think that this is, you know, this is, this is not the idea. This is not the long-term thing for us, and then we looked into beauty, and we had a beauty idea. We went, we actually went to manufacturers and.

AI assessment note: “we had a fashion brand idea... and then we looked into beauty”

Q And, and why? Were you, were you both just, like, kind of done? Like, were you just really, I mean, I mean, you worked, like, insanely hard, and, and, and you were, you just kind of burned out, and is that, is that why?

A It was more about us. It had to happen. Otherwise, we weren't going to be able to grow any bigger than we were, and I think. We were scared about giving, you know, having an outside investor because we didn't know what that looked like. I mean, we were, we've been doing this for 15 years. It's like, what is that going to look like to us? We heard really scary stories from friends of ours that had businesses for a long time, and we, you know, a lot of our friends that are successful, and they're unhappy. They're miserable. And so, you know, I'm talking about not a startup getting money, but like being in this business and living and breathing it every day for 15 years, and then having an outside partner come in and tell you to do things differently, it's not received well, I don't think. So we, that was something that we explored, and, um, we had three different companies come to us, um, with interest of, um, Buying us and, and partnering with us. So the timing was just really meant to be, and we were ready.

AI assessment note: “It was more about us. It had to happen. Otherwise, we weren't going to be able to grow”

Q And that was entirely financed just by the revenue that the company was generating?

A Yes, exactly, and that was the initial plan. Um, we wanted the service in the store, um, we wanted to really show the lifestyle of laundry, and have a place where people could go and ask Questions and, and try the products and smell the products. The scent experience is really, really important to our brand. Um, and scent in general for detergents are very important, um, to, to clients and customers. I mean, they're, they're very nostalgic and it makes them think of their, you know, our baby detergent people still use, even though they don't have babies anymore, you know, it makes them think of that time. And I think, Coming from brands with stores, it was something we always kind of dreamed of. We didn't know when that was going to happen, and, and actually, our first store wasn't, wasn't in New York City. It was in, um, Sinjuku Station in Tokyo, Japan.

AI assessment note: “Yes, exactly, and that was the initial plan.”

Q When you kind of turned a profit, was that, was that kind of the beginning of profitability from that point forward? Was it just, did you just grow up? Because, I mean, it's a financial crisis.

A Yeah. So it's a weird time for us because we were growing and it was a horrible time for, you know, our, our U S business wasn't really growing at all. Um, so we had to pivot quickly and focus on, we always had a diverse business portfolio from international U S retail and then e-com. And so we put a lot of our energy and focus on this, the, the markets or the clients that were doing well in the U S and We put a lot of energy in them, so like really the bigger stores, and we look to our international partners and spent a lot of time going over there and, and meeting the customers and putting a lot of energy in those markets that were doing well, and this is something that I think was really, really is important for brands to To think about and, and, you know, having just one way for revenue, it can be really tough. Um, I think about that now, too, during quarantine and what everyone's going through, it's very, um, it's important to, to be creative and, and think about, think of all the angles of what you're doing. Because if we were only sold in the U.S. boutiques, we would not have come out of that the way we did.

AI assessment note: “we were growing and it was a horrible time for... our U S business”