The Exchanges

Q Oh, okay. I gotcha. Gotcha. But so, so there was some filming, but really this was kind of a, it was a stunt to get people to come to your trailer and To see your shoes. And by the way, how did they know to come there? Did you like paint Kenneth Cole productions on the side?

A We did. There was a banner outside of the truck, and I would stand there, and Sam would stand there, and we would kind of, you know, wave to people, and then we saw every buyer in New York. And after the first few days, people, it became apparent people heard about it. And then there was a, by the way, there's a phone booth on that corner. So I had committed a To the factory to buy 40,000 pair of shoes. But I refused to commit to which, specifically which ones, but I told them I would let them know as the show was happening. So, you know, I'd give a little more red, a little more in the lower heel, a lesser the blue, more of the red. So, I was calling from the phone booth, I had lots of quarters in my pocket, and changing and adjusting the supply chain as we were selling the shoes. We get delivery and Four to six weeks, which was unheard of, but we'd committed to do this, and I air freighted, flew everything in.

AI assessment note: “We did. There was a banner outside of the truck, and I would stand there”

Q stores, standalone stores at one point. In a case like this, when you've got a, a sort of an up and coming designer, still small, but wanting to kind of make their name. I mean, is there value in, if you can, opening up a brick and mortar boutique in a place like Toronto where, you know, it's expensive or Vancouver where it costs a lot to get a lease?

A You know, I, I opened stores early on in my, Business development, because I found that I initially was selling the better stores, but I wasn't able to tell the story I wanted to tell in my terms from my point, it's a hundred percent from my point of view. And in a retail store, you can do that. And you almost have to be prepared to write it off to look at it as a marketing and branding and initiative. And then maybe if you get lucky and you can make it a destination and you can attract an audience. I think today a retail experience has to be different than it used to be when I, when I did this, and it should be immersive in some ways. You should be able to bring them into the brand and let them feel like, feel the brand while they're in this space, and then want to interact with the brand when they leave it.

AI assessment note: “look at it as a marketing and branding and initiative.”

Q You guys were pioneers in, in this whole space, right? You, in, in the eighties, it was about AIDS, when that was still controversial. I mean, you had ads calling for, for research into AIDS, and More recently, and you, you started to do this, I think, when we last spoke, um, a focus on mental health.

A And mental health, I think, it affects everybody. Because if it isn't you, it's somebody you love, somebody in the family, in the community, in the workplace. So, I feel here was an opportunity to talk about something that few were. So, I built a coalition of 50 of the, of the nation's largest mental health service providers, mentalhealth.org, if you want to look at it. Our goal is to give them a platform, and then Ultimately connect needs to resources, and it's real. It's not a marketing tool. It's something that's truly embedded in the business model, and that you'll see that in the documentary if you see it. And we run the not-for-profit like a business, and we run business with a heart uniquely. It adds value to everything that we do, and I can bring my commitment to social purpose and activism to the business, and then I've got something that's greater than it could be otherwise. So it's, it's all very gratifying.

AI assessment note: “I built a coalition of 50 of the, of the nation's largest mental health”

Q Tell me about, about the name, Kenneth Cole. I mean, it's a great name. It's your name. Was that, was that the idea from the beginning to call it Kenneth Cole?

A No. I couldn't take the chance of, of a made-up name, and finding out many, many months or years later whether it was acceptable or not through the trademark process, because we didn't have Google in those days. But I also knew you can usually get away with your own name, as long as it's your name. So I called it Kenneth Cole, and I knew it would probably make my mother happy. So I did that. Then I ran to Italy, because I didn't have credit, and I figured I'd get credit from a, from a shoe factory, and I did. So I had a factory that agreed to do this. The factory was a single production line, and then when the production line stopped at six o'clock when the workers went home is when Kaiser, who was the modalist who I worked with, and I would work all night long on the collections.

AI assessment note: “No. I couldn't take the chance of, of a made-up name”

Q when brands were built through department stores and print ads and physical retail, and today, a lot of brands are often built through TikTok and creators, and they may not be sustainable. They may not last as long as Kenneth Cole has lasted, but that's how they're built. What do you think younger founders in this industry misunderstand or don't really fully understand about what actually creates a lasting brand?

A You know, when social media was kind of came into its own, I was petrified that, you know, we now had all these competitors that had access to our customers from all around the world. But then I came to realize that we also have access to all of theirs. So, you know, everybody today can tell a story and everybody today can find an audience, but you have to find a unique narrative and you have to find a voice that distinguishes itself from all the other voices. Cause there, to your point, there's a lot of noise out there. You know, I used to think when I started my business that my goal was just to find people to sell stuff to. I came to realize that my goal really was to sell them again and again, because there aren't, it's not just selling stuff. I have to create a fulfilling experience for our customers, and they have to want to come back. So that's the goal. But it starts, I think, with understanding, you know, emotionally where your customer is. And I also learned early on in my career that my goal is not to tell them what they should wear. It's to understand what they want and give it to them, but not how they expect it. That's the challenge, and it's a nuance, but it's not insignificant.

AI assessment note: “my goal really was to sell them again and again, because there aren't,”

Q Your, you know, your name, obviously, your identity is wrapped up in your brand. It is Kenneth Cole. When people hear that name, I know over the years you've had an idea of what you want them to think or feel. How has that changed? Like, when people hear Kenneth Cole now, what do you want them to think or imagine?

A You know, I think that the man and the brand are somewhat interchangeable. I've come to realize that, and I don't, I don't take either very personally. You know, I built a business, and the film just came, there's a documentary that just came out, um, that kind of tells a little bit about the story more of its social impact than about its fashion. It talks about the intersection of cause and commerce, and how the two, that together you create something greater than the sum of its parts. And I do think that all businesses, they need to service the customer, not just when they're in their stores, but when they're not, when they're in their lives. A government today is, is neither willing or able to service so many of the social needs that it used to in the past, and I do believe it's incumbent upon us to do a lot of that.

AI assessment note: “tells a little bit about the story more of its social impact than about its fashion”

Q private. And for anyone who doesn't understand this, and I, I don't fully understand it, it is very hard to take a company private once it's gone public is you are essentially, you got to buy back the shares from shareholders. It means you have to raise a lot of money to do that. And that's very challenging. I mean, I think, but how did you go about doing it?

A I, I don't remember exactly step by step, but we did what most people do, and we hired a law firm, and, um, we retained bank advisors, and, uh, I spoke to a lot of people in the industry, and, you know, actually, the process getting here is, I, I spoke to all these very smart people that I knew, and, uh, and many of them were friends, and I asked them, you know, if I totally tried to overhaul the business, and put in a whole new board, and, Restructure. And they all said to me, well, that's great, but you can't do this as a public company. And then they'd say, well, and by the way, why are you public? And I said, well, I, because I don't know how to not be public. Well, they said, well, just, it shouldn't be that hard. And they, you know, looking at your balance sheet. So, because I, I had always maintained and held on to a reasonable amount of the shares. So we realized that upon analysis that I can do this, um, Without a venture capital firm. Because to do it with them, many will argue it's harder, it's, it's harder to exist in that structure than it is as a public company.

AI assessment note: “we hired a law firm, and, um, we retained bank advisors”

Q What is a shoe that gets you excited right now that you guys are making?

A It's something that does everything for you, that checks all the boxes. You know, that today, post-COVID, I talk about a PC, what's the PC world, which is post-COVID, Coronavirus. And what are going to be our expectations and what's our appetite? I don't think there is a closet anywhere that today isn't full. So we have to give you a reason to make room in your closet, which is in and of itself. And it's very attribute driven. And, um, right now I'm very focused on the most important new accessory, which is one that nobody has in their closet right now. And everybody knows they need, and even if they have it, they know it could be better.

AI assessment note: “It's something that does everything for you, that checks all the boxes.”