The Exchanges

Q And I guess you had a turning point in 2005. You get a visit from a state regulator who says, actually, you're not supposed to be making ice cream here. You, you're, you don't have a license. What, what happened? What's that story?

A Yeah, so if you want to make ice cream and sell it over the counter, you're, you're governed by your, you get a permit from your local health department. Um, but if you want to make ice cream and sell it to somebody else to resell, you then are, you then move to the state agricultural department. But we didn't know that. So, We were making ice creams, and they were selling it in a couple of restaurants, and so he came over and was like, yeah, you're really not supposed to do that. So we were like, okay, um, so now what? Right, yeah. Well, he gave us, you know, all of the information that we needed to figure out what kind of a kitchen we needed. We realized that we needed to open a brand new ice cream production facility.

AI assessment note: “We were making ice creams, and they were selling it in a couple of restaurants”

Q And I guess you had a turning point in 2005. You get a visit from a state regulator who says, actually, you're not supposed to be making ice cream here. You, you're, you don't have a license. What, what happened? What's that story?

A Yeah, so if you want to make ice cream and sell it over the counter, you're, you're governed by your, you get a permit from your local health department. Um, but if you want to make ice cream and sell it to somebody else to resell, you then are, you then move to the state agricultural department. But we didn't know that. So, We were making ice creams, and they were selling it in a couple of restaurants, and so he came over and was like, yeah, you're really not supposed to do that. So we were like, okay, um, so now what? Right, yeah. Well, he gave us, you know, all of the information that we needed to figure out what kind of a kitchen we needed. We realized that we needed to open a brand new ice cream production facility.

AI assessment note: “we were making ice creams, and they were selling it in a couple of restaurants”

Q So I want to, I want to sort of, um, shift gears a little bit and ask you about perfectionism, because for those who know about your company and about you, you're, you're a bit of a perfectionist. I mean, you obsess over ice cream in a way that few people obsess over any products, right?

A Well, I mean, we, you know, start with what the cows eat. Um, and that every year our ice cream recipes change. I mean, right now we're talking about extended hold times for pasteurization and how that will impact stability. Um, we don't use stabilizers, emulsifiers, corn syrup, high fructose corn syrup, and a whole bunch of other, um, ingredients that are sort of very typical in ice cream, or even egg yolks. Um, but we figured out that, um, that, that there's various ways to make milk proteins act that way, and it's really fun, and it's extremely delicious, but it's all still an experiment, and it's a big challenge. I think it's one of the reasons that, 24 years in, I'm still extremely excited about what we can do this year, and What we're going to try this year is going to impact what we're going to do next year.

AI assessment note: “we, you know, start with what the cows eat. Um, and that every year”

Q So I want to, I want to sort of, um, shift gears a little bit and ask you about perfectionism, because for those who know about your company and about you, you're, you're a bit of a perfectionist. I mean, you obsess over ice cream in a way that few people obsess over any products, right?

A Well, I mean, we, you know, start with what the cows eat. Um, and that every year our ice cream recipes change. I mean, right now we're talking about extended hold times for pasteurization and how that will impact stability. Um, we don't use stabilizers, emulsifiers, corn syrup, high fructose corn syrup, and a whole bunch of other, um, ingredients that are sort of very typical in ice cream, or even egg yolks. Um, but we figured out that, um, that, that there's various ways to make milk proteins act that way, and it's really fun, and it's extremely delicious, but it's all still an experiment, and it's a big challenge. I think it's one of the reasons that, 24 years in, I'm still extremely excited about what we can do this year, and What we're going to try this year is going to impact what we're going to do next year.

AI assessment note: “we, you know, start with what the cows eat.”

Q And what, what changed about your whole approach in, in Jenny's versus Scream? I mean, did you, did you look different? Did you dress different? Was there a different aesthetic?

A Everything, there were a lot of things that were different. First of all, I, um, I had, like, Two different dipping cases, so that I had, like, signature flavors on one side, so that, and then I vowed, like, I'll never be out of salty caramel again. Um, and other flavors that were, I knew people really loved, that I'd, like, hit, that I was good at, that were working. And then I had another side that was just for ice creams of the season, or of my whim, or whatever, inspired by pop culture, or history, or whatever I wanted to do. And then the other thing I did was, I, I mean, I was I determined that this was going to work. I had seen failure, and I didn't want to do it again, so I, like, cut my hair short. I dyed it darker than my natural color, which is not, which is, like, dark blonde, so it was, like, brown, and I had, um, starched white shirt and jeans and, like, a starch apron every day.

AI assessment note: “cut my hair short. I dyed it darker... starched white shirt and jeans”

Q Because you were making all your ice cream there at the market. So you had to basically start making your ice cream in another kitchen and How were you able to pay for that?

A Well, we had to go back to the bank. And it was actually pretty terrifying because we knew pretty quickly that the business that we had set up wasn't going to be enough to pay for this new production kitchen or facility. And so Um, we immediately started thinking about another location to help us pay for that, and that was our Grandview location. It's here in Columbus, and it's a great walkable neighborhood. Um, so we went to the bank with both of those projects, and we got a, and now we had some proof that we, we could do it, and they gave us the loan, but it was a lot of money. I mean, it might have been 250,000 dollars. That was a frightening time, because we opened Grandview not knowing if anybody knew who we were, if anybody would come, and I had been sort of scared of having a Door. You know, I mean, we're in the market, and that's a beautiful environment.

AI assessment note: “we had to go back to the bank... and they gave us the loan”

Q And what was it? Was it just people saying, when are you going to get back to doing it?

A One of the things that really struck me when I was in that in-between time, when I was really sort of in limbo of where, what I was going to do, what, it was a moment that I, on a Saturday, I had saved like, I mean, I had like five dollars, and I had a Vogue magazine, I was going to a coffee shop, and I was really excited to get their orange scone, and like, that was going to be my whole Saturday. And I went in there, and I stood in the long line, and I got up to the front, and I was like, and I'll have the orange scone and a coffee. And they're like, oh, we're out of the scone. And I was like, what? They didn't care, and I just, like, kind of backed away from the line. I remember this so perfectly. Backed away from the line, and, like, the line is still there, and all these people are still excited or whatever, and I wasn't anymore, and I turned around, I walked out with nothing to do, but when I walked through the door, it, like, hit me. Like, that is exactly what I was doing to all of my customers at Scream, because at Scream, I would only have whatever I wanted to make every day, and so, yeah, I knew that, like, everyone loved salty caramel, but, like, I can't make it every day. And so once I realized that the thing that draws me back to a business every single time, no matter what the business is, is the thing that I had last time I was there. I might change my mind when I…

AI assessment note: “when I walked through the door, it, like, hit me.”

Q I mean, yeah, you walked out, and, and so a lot of, you know, a lot of callers have asked this in the past, which is when, like, how do you know that it was the right thing to do at that time?

A Uh, well, first of all, I didn't question it. It, it wasn't something that I sat and thought, is this really right? Is it not right? Um, I just knew that I couldn't do art anymore. And I had spent my entire life in art. My grandmother's an art teacher. My mother's an artist. And, um, and it just wasn't for me anymore. I just wanted to be making ice cream, and I wanted to be serving ice cream, and I wanted to light people up in that way, and I didn't know at all what I was doing, and I just thought it was just gonna be, you know, you make ice cream, you serve it, people love it, and then, you know, you become Ben and Jerry's overnight.

AI assessment note: “I didn't question it. It, it wasn't something that I sat and thought”

Q of people assume that brands start in, you know, coastal cities, LA, New York, San Francisco. Um, but you started this in Columbus and built a national brand really on, on the sheer force of the quality of the product and the, and the branding and the look of it. Um, tell me, why do you think Columbus turned out to be the perfect place where you launched the business?

A Columbus is a perfect place. Um, and, and these smaller markets are really perfect for a lot of reasons, actually. I mean, um, I, you know, I was in Columbus, and one of the reasons that I wanted to be an ice cream maker is because I drove by farms every day. You go 20 minutes outside of downtown, and you're driving by dairy farms. So I knew that we were a dairy state, because I saw it in front of me. So I thought, okay, great, it's awesome for ice cream. And, um, And we forget that a lot of innovation can come from the middle of the country, whether it's in food, especially in food, where we have ag states. Um, but also when you're in a smaller, small to mid-sized city, the city gets behind it in a different way. You know, you can, you can really try things and also fail a lot, and people still stick with you. And I have noticed that in big cities, everybody's trying new things. Um, everybody's got something going on, and it's really hard to stand out.

AI assessment note: “one of the reasons that I wanted to be an ice cream maker is because I drove by farms every day.”

Q but I think that most of the people that you want to appeal to aren't really going to care about that as much yet. I still think it's new. I think most of the people are just going to like your product because it's delicious. It's a higher quality product, and you can taste it. What, do you, do you think there's something to that, Jenny, or do you disagree?

A I really do. If you go super deep on the seed oil thing, that science has not reached consensus yet. So it can be fad-like right now. And so you don't want to just be known for that. People who follow that will find you. They'll see tallow, they'll see avocado oil, and they'll find you. Um, but I will say there is another component or an element that you, that, that to think about, which is, you know, you're not just moving people from one fry company to another. In Jenny's it was the same way because Your customer when you're in grocery is not their customer, it's, it's the buyer. And what the buyer wants to see is, yeah, sure, you can split some votes, that's okay. Are you bringing new people to the category? And so the new people that you're bringing, sure, it's some of the seed oil people, it's some of the health conscious people. It's also just people who love fries, who just don't think you can get good fries in the grocery store, and you can't make them at home. And you have a story that can back that up, and that's going to bring new people into the category. And I think The buyers are going to really want to, want to have you on the shelf.

AI assessment note: “I really do. If you go super deep on the seed oil thing”

Q it could mean that, um, you lose control of the quality as you have more stores and more shops. And I think most of your sales are still online and at, and at stores, right? Be people buying pints at Whole Foods and other places rather than the scoop shops. Um, but I mean, how important is explosive growth? I mean, do you want Jenny's to be like Baskin Robbins?

A I mean, I love growing so much. I like the challenge of, of business, and I love all of that. Um, I don't think that my company would ever grow just because of growth. I don't think anyone in our company is motivated by that. I think it's been really fun to grow where people are buying our ice cream and then be able to offer them service. I mean, I'm very service driven. As a person, it's very personal to me, and so being able to open shops is really important to me in places even where we're selling a lot of ice cream and Whole Foods, for instance, To be able to open a shop in that community where we know people know about us and love us, then we can offer that sort of service in that moment, and, you know, I do think that ice cream is a really, uh, lovely moment, a place that you can get to know somebody else better, and it's, you know, just a special thing. So, gosh, I have so many thoughts on this, because I think that you can get better as you grow, and that's been my experience. Um, when we were really small, and there's this sort of Glow around the sort of mom and pop sort of thing, I think, especially in ice cream. But when we were small, we were, we were really limited by what we could buy. I mean, we had to do an ice cream mix. You couldn't get a company to help us. We couldn't get the dairy that we wanted to. We couldn't get the milk that we, ah, we wanted, and we kn…

AI assessment note: “I don't think that my company would ever grow just because of growth.”

Q I mean, do you think, I mean, it was, must have been a grind, right? Because you're selling ice cream all day, and you're making it all night there in that stall.

A I was making it all day, selling it all day, um, And it was, it was great. I mean, it was great for, for a long time. It was really great. I would wander the market, talk to merchants. I got to learn about everything that they do. I learned from the cheese guy, all about cheese from the wine guy, all about wine. I had a lot of time, you know, the market's only busy when it's busy and then it's not busy. Um, so I learned a lot. I learned everything I know about food. I learned everything I know about business and people and, um, all of that from the market from those days. And I would make ice cream in And sell it over the counter, and learn how people re, reacted to it, and.

AI assessment note: “I was making it all day, selling it all day... And it was great.”

Q So how did you get the, how did you get it?

A Well, the family, the rights that I was babysitting for and nannying for, um, I pitched the idea to them. They loved the ice cream. And, um, they were like, okay, we'd love to offer you the money. And I was just like, oh, thank goodness. And they were like, but don't take it. Because if you take it, we will own so much of your company right now. And, um, Just do everything you can first. It'll be here for you. We're going to be in Toronto, but it'll be here for you if you need it. Charlie, like, we went home to Charlie. Charlie, like, thought I was going to get the money that night. Like, I don't know, man. I don't know what happened. Like, they, they said yes, but they said no, and like, you know. And then, and then Charlie was like, well, what if we went to the bank together? Like, maybe we can get this together. Like, maybe we can get a loan from the bank, from the SBA. And that's what we did.

AI assessment note: “maybe we can get a loan from the bank, from the SBA. And that's what we did.”

Q Was John, was he sort of looking at other distribution, like, was he looking at supermarkets and other places to get?

A Yeah, so we had, we were working with Dean and DeLuca. We, we, we'd been working with them for maybe a couple of years, and, um, and that was the beginning of our sort of grocery business, and so when John came in, he kind of used that as the platform to then continue to, to really to begin growing that, which helped pay for him, um, Um, and was great. So that was kind of the, really the beginning of that channel. Dean and DeLuca was kind of a fluky thing. They love finding like all the new stuff and they'll, you know, food entrepreneurs and, and great stuff out in America. But, you know, that was just Dean and DeLuca. So it was this next, you know, he sort of took that and scaled it up, which is still happening.

AI assessment note: “when John came in, he kind of used that as the platform to then continue”

Q And what was it? Was it just people saying, when are you going to get back to doing it?

A One of the things that really struck me when I was in that in-between time, when I was really sort of in limbo of where, what I was going to do, what, it was a moment that I, on a Saturday, I had saved like, I mean, I had like five dollars, and I had a Vogue magazine, I was going to a coffee shop, and I was really excited to get their orange scone, and like, that was going to be my whole Saturday. And I went in there, and I stood in the long line, and I got up to the front, and I was like, and I'll have the orange scone and a coffee. And they're like, oh, we're out of the scone. And I was like, what? They didn't care, and I just, like, kind of backed away from the line. I remember this so perfectly. Backed away from the line, and, like, the line is still there, and all these people are still excited or whatever, and I wasn't anymore, and I turned around, I walked out with nothing to do, but when I walked through the door, it, like, hit me. Like, that is exactly what I was doing to all of my customers at Scream, because at Scream, I would only have whatever I wanted to make every day, and so, yeah, I knew that, like, everyone loved salty caramel, but, like, I can't make it every day. And so once I realized that the thing that draws me back to a business every single time, no matter what the business is, is the thing that I had last time I was there. I might change my mind when I…

AI assessment note: “it, like, hit me. Like, that is exactly what I was doing to all”

Q I mean, you look at a company like Chipotle, which had its own food safety crisis. Arguably, they still haven't recovered from that. Not only did you guys recover from it, you're a much bigger company three years later. Um, what, what do you think explains it? I mean, you, you weathered that storm and, and you're much bigger today than you were then.

A Well, we, um, we've learned so much. I think we've been pretty open to about that. And I think that people relate to that Kind of personality, you know, that sort of openness. Um, in the end, the Listeria was coming out of a hairline crack over by the wall behind a piece of equipment, and it's like, we finally found it, which we celebrated. Um, the funny thing was, not funny, but when we closed our stores, we had these wonderful people who would put post-it notes up at the stores, and like, they were so beautiful, and And we were just like, you know what? We're fighting for that. Like, we're fighting for this community. And I think because we raised our company as a community, with our community, there was a lot of trust built into that. And that's what saved us.

AI assessment note: “there was a lot of trust built into that. And that's what saved us.”

Q So how did you get the, how did you get it?

A Well, the family, the rights that I was babysitting for and nannying for, um, I pitched the idea to them. They loved the ice cream. And, um, they were like, okay, we'd love to offer you the money. And I was just like, oh, thank goodness. And they were like, but don't take it. Because if you take it, we will own so much of your company right now. And, um, Just do everything you can first. It'll be here for you. We're going to be in Toronto, but it'll be here for you if you need it. Charlie, like, we went home to Charlie. Charlie, like, thought I was going to get the money that night. Like, I don't know, man. I don't know what happened. Like, they, they said yes, but they said no, and like, you know. And then, and then Charlie was like, well, what if we went to the bank together? Like, maybe we can get this together. Like, maybe we can get a loan from the bank, from the SBA. And that's what we did.

AI assessment note: “maybe we can get a loan from the bank, from the SBA. And that's what we did.”

Q And were you wearing them? I mean, yeah.

A Yeah, I was wearing them. I was, um, selling them. I was giving them away, and, um, I did that for a couple of years. I read a few books on it, and, and then I had this one essential oil that was the oil of cayenne that doesn't have a scent at all. It just has physical heat on your tongue, so I would sometimes use that to cook with, and some of the other essential oils, too, I would, Throw them in pasta or whatever, like basil and whatever. But, um, but I had this essential oil of cayenne and I was trying to figure out something to do with it and it occurred to me that maybe I could mush into some chocolate ice cream.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, I was wearing them. I was, um, selling them.”

Q I mean, you look at a company like Chipotle, which had its own food safety crisis. Arguably, they still haven't recovered from that. Not only did you guys recover from it, you're a much bigger company three years later. Um, what, what do you think explains it? I mean, you, you weathered that storm and, and you're much bigger today than you were then.

A Well, we, um, we've learned so much. I think we've been pretty open to about that. And I think that people relate to that Kind of personality, you know, that sort of openness. Um, in the end, the Listeria was coming out of a hairline crack over by the wall behind a piece of equipment, and it's like, we finally found it, which we celebrated. Um, the funny thing was, not funny, but when we closed our stores, we had these wonderful people who would put post-it notes up at the stores, and like, they were so beautiful, and And we were just like, you know what? We're fighting for that. Like, we're fighting for this community. And I think because we raised our company as a community, with our community, there was a lot of trust built into that. And that's what saved us.

AI assessment note: “there was a lot of trust built into that. And that's what saved us.”

Q And were you wearing them? I mean, yeah.

A Yeah, I was wearing them. I was, um, selling them. I was giving them away, and, um, I did that for a couple of years. I read a few books on it, and, and then I had this one essential oil that was the oil of cayenne that doesn't have a scent at all. It just has physical heat on your tongue, so I would sometimes use that to cook with, and some of the other essential oils, too, I would, Throw them in pasta or whatever, like basil and whatever. But, um, but I had this essential oil of cayenne and I was trying to figure out something to do with it and it occurred to me that maybe I could mush into some chocolate ice cream.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, I was wearing them. I was, um, selling them.”

Q I mean, you are in and entered a crowded space. A lot of ice cream makers. A lot of people here Working on baby clothes and different products where there's, you know, there's a lot of competition. Um, I mean, how do you really break through in a, in a crowded market?

A Time. I mean, it's one person at a time. It's all on the street level. It's time and that start small and build sort of mentality of business because you get to create, um, I didn't know how to make the ice cream. I know now when we were younger and let's say we would have taken, you know, a whole bunch of money early and I don't think anybody would have given it to us anyway, but let's just say we could have done that. I wouldn't have had the time to work out these details and the things that I now know about ice cream. I needed all this time. I spent at least eight years boots on the ground just making ice cream and serving it before I ever started growing, and that time is everything for me because I learned all of that. I mean, I studied art. I didn't study ice cream chemistry, and honestly, I failed every math class I ever took, and math, ice cream is math, so I had to learn all that stuff, and for, for us, that's, that's what's worked, and I think in ice cream, when we look at what's happened in American ice cream, Um, for the last hundred years, there was, like, a new, sort of, great American ice cream concept every, like, 10 years, and then it kind of stopped at Ben & Jerry's. I mean, there's been a couple other things that, sort of, were okay, but not great, um, and now we're in another ice cream moment, and I think it's because we've really devoted this, like, time to…

AI assessment note: “Time. I mean, it's one person at a time. It's all on the street level.”

Q I mean, you are in and entered a crowded space. A lot of ice cream makers. A lot of people here Working on baby clothes and different products where there's, you know, there's a lot of competition. Um, I mean, how do you really break through in a, in a crowded market?

A Time. I mean, it's one person at a time. It's all on the street level. It's time and that start small and build sort of mentality of business because you get to create, um, I didn't know how to make the ice cream. I know now when we were younger and let's say we would have taken, you know, a whole bunch of money early and I don't think anybody would have given it to us anyway, but let's just say we could have done that. I wouldn't have had the time to work out these details and the things that I now know about ice cream. I needed all this time. I spent at least eight years boots on the ground just making ice cream and serving it before I ever started growing, and that time is everything for me because I learned all of that. I mean, I studied art. I didn't study ice cream chemistry, and honestly, I failed every math class I ever took, and math, ice cream is math, so I had to learn all that stuff, and for, for us, that's, that's what's worked, and I think in ice cream, when we look at what's happened in American ice cream, Um, for the last hundred years, there was, like, a new, sort of, great American ice cream concept every, like, 10 years, and then it kind of stopped at Ben & Jerry's. I mean, there's been a couple other things that, sort of, were okay, but not great, um, and now we're in another ice cream moment, and I think it's because we've really devoted this, like, time to…

AI assessment note: “Time. I mean, it's one person at a time. It's all on the street level.”

Q I mean, you'd been making ice cream for four years, so why did you feel like you needed to take that ice cream course?

A I felt like I wanted to know how everybody else does it. That's, that, that's where I got a lot of it. I mean, because I'd been doing it for four years when I went to Penn State, it was like all of these, this intuition that I had was suddenly knowledge that I now knew, right? It was not just intuition. I now had that. And so it was like, yes, yes. It was like, I got it, you know? Um, and it was wonderful too, because it's, you know, ice cream is all math. It's math and chemistry and science. And That is just not at all what I did when I was younger, and so that was really cool, being in that environment and seeing, um, these people putting these things together and to see ice cream in the lab, and this was really cool, I was really into it.

AI assessment note: “I felt like I wanted to know how everybody else does it.”

Q I mean, you'd been making ice cream for four years, so why did you feel like you needed to take that ice cream course?

A I felt like I wanted to know how everybody else does it. That's, that, that's where I got a lot of it. I mean, because I'd been doing it for four years when I went to Penn State, it was like all of these, this intuition that I had was suddenly knowledge that I now knew, right? It was not just intuition. I now had that. And so it was like, yes, yes. It was like, I got it, you know? Um, and it was wonderful too, because it's, you know, ice cream is all math. It's math and chemistry and science. And That is just not at all what I did when I was younger, and so that was really cool, being in that environment and seeing, um, these people putting these things together and to see ice cream in the lab, and this was really cool, I was really into it.

AI assessment note: “I felt like I wanted to know how everybody else does it.”

Q Was John, was he sort of looking at other distribution, like, was he looking at supermarkets and other places to get?

A Yeah, so we had, we were working with Dean and DeLuca. We, we, we'd been working with them for maybe a couple of years, and, um, and that was the beginning of our sort of grocery business, and so when John came in, he kind of used that as the platform to then continue to, to really to begin growing that, which helped pay for him, um, Um, and was great. So that was kind of the, really the beginning of that channel. Dean and DeLuca was kind of a fluky thing. They love finding like all the new stuff and they'll, you know, food entrepreneurs and, and great stuff out in America. But, you know, that was just Dean and DeLuca. So it was this next, you know, he sort of took that and scaled it up, which is still happening.

AI assessment note: “when John came in, he kind of used that as the platform to then continue”

Q I mean, do you think, I mean, it was, must have been a grind, right? Because you're selling ice cream all day, and you're making it all night there in that stall.

A I was making it all day, selling it all day, um, And it was, it was great. I mean, it was great for, for a long time. It was really great. I would wander the market, talk to merchants. I got to learn about everything that they do. I learned from the cheese guy, all about cheese from the wine guy, all about wine. I had a lot of time, you know, the market's only busy when it's busy and then it's not busy. Um, so I learned a lot. I learned everything I know about food. I learned everything I know about business and people and, um, all of that from the market from those days. And I would make ice cream in And sell it over the counter, and learn how people re, reacted to it, and.

AI assessment note: “I was making it all day, selling it all day, um, And it was, it was great.”

Q it could mean that, um, you lose control of the quality as you have more stores and more shops. And I think most of your sales are still online and at, and at stores, right? Be people buying pints at Whole Foods and other places rather than the scoop shops. Um, but I mean, how important is explosive growth? I mean, do you want Jenny's to be like Baskin Robbins?

A I mean, I love growing so much. I like the challenge of, of business, and I love all of that. Um, I don't think that my company would ever grow just because of growth. I don't think anyone in our company is motivated by that. I think it's been really fun to grow where people are buying our ice cream and then be able to offer them service. I mean, I'm very service driven. As a person, it's very personal to me, and so being able to open shops is really important to me in places even where we're selling a lot of ice cream and Whole Foods, for instance, To be able to open a shop in that community where we know people know about us and love us, then we can offer that sort of service in that moment, and, you know, I do think that ice cream is a really, uh, lovely moment, a place that you can get to know somebody else better, and it's, you know, just a special thing. So, gosh, I have so many thoughts on this, because I think that you can get better as you grow, and that's been my experience. Um, when we were really small, and there's this sort of Glow around the sort of mom and pop sort of thing, I think, especially in ice cream. But when we were small, we were, we were really limited by what we could buy. I mean, we had to do an ice cream mix. You couldn't get a company to help us. We couldn't get the dairy that we wanted to. We couldn't get the milk that we, ah, we wanted, and we kn…

AI assessment note: “I don't think that my company would ever grow just because of growth.”

Q And how long before you were making decent ice cream? Because I have to assume, like, some of that ice cream probably just sucked.

A Well now I would say it all was horrible, but at the time I was thinking it was getting pretty good. So first of all, when I put the essential oils into the ice creams, like I knew in that moment, I had one of those moments that you read about, where like the sky opened up and I knew that I was going to make ice cream for the rest of my life. And I think that the reason it happened is because I had been studying all the things that interested me, and this is exactly where they all converge. I understood that butterfat melted below body temperature because I was working with other fats that perfumers often use fats that are solid at room temperature but melt immediately on contact with your skin. And so I knew that butterfat was that kind of a fat, and that ice cream was a perfect carrier of scent. Um, I knew that scent could tell stories because I'd been thinking about that. From an art perspective. And then I knew a little bit about pastry because I've been working in the pastry shop and the pastry kitchen and thinking about that. So those things kind of crossed over in ice cream. And, um, I didn't know what I needed to do. I thought I knew what I needed to do, and I needed to quit school and go do it.

AI assessment note: “Well now I would say it all was horrible, but at the time”

Q And how long before you were making decent ice cream? Because I have to assume, like, some of that ice cream probably just sucked.

A Well now I would say it all was horrible, but at the time I was thinking it was getting pretty good. So first of all, when I put the essential oils into the ice creams, like I knew in that moment, I had one of those moments that you read about, where like the sky opened up and I knew that I was going to make ice cream for the rest of my life. And I think that the reason it happened is because I had been studying all the things that interested me, and this is exactly where they all converge. I understood that butterfat melted below body temperature because I was working with other fats that perfumers often use fats that are solid at room temperature but melt immediately on contact with your skin. And so I knew that butterfat was that kind of a fat, and that ice cream was a perfect carrier of scent. Um, I knew that scent could tell stories because I'd been thinking about that. From an art perspective. And then I knew a little bit about pastry because I've been working in the pastry shop and the pastry kitchen and thinking about that. So those things kind of crossed over in ice cream. And, um, I didn't know what I needed to do. I thought I knew what I needed to do, and I needed to quit school and go do it.

AI assessment note: “Well now I would say it all was horrible, but at the time”

Q So what do people make of you guys at this stop? And because you were super young and kind of like alternative, like.

A Yeah, I mean, I had pink hair most of the time, and I wore, um, goofy outfits and a whole lot of vintage stuff, and I thought it was cool. I thought it was like. I thought I was like, the artist making ice cream. And it's funny looking back on that too, because I'm like, I never even, like, I never got to the artist part. Like, I was studying art, you know, I mean, I never even did that, you know. But I just thought that was cool. That's like a cool business. You, you know, do something different every day, and people will come in and be just so excited to see what you're doing that day.

AI assessment note: “people will come in and be just so excited to see what you're doing”