The Exchanges

Q When you had, you know, you reached out to 40 people to sign up, and all of them said no, and it's just you, your roommate, and your girlfriend who are the only people on the site, how did you attract other people?

A When we launched, and this is how Patreon ended up growing, when we launched, I went onto my YouTube channel, I told all my fans about Patreon, and I said, hey, go to this website, and of course, creators follow creators. So some of the people who watched my video were creators themselves, and when they landed on my Patreon page, and they saw this random middle-of-the-road YouTuber making six figures, they had that same mind-blow moment that I had had two years before when Lauren launched her Kickstarter, and they saw a new revenue model for professional creativity, and then those folks launched on Patreon, and then they did the same thing. They went onto YouTube, and they went onto their podcasts, and they went onto You know, they, they wrote on their websites, and then that cycle just repeated, and that's actually responsible for most of Patreon's growth, is that viral product cycle.

AI assessment note: “I went onto my YouTube channel, I told all my fans about Patreon”

Q contact? I mean, I should say that you were, I know you were on NPR around that time, because I was the host of Weekend All Things Considered, and there was a weekend when I wasn't, I was like on vacation, and you guys, sadly, I wasn't able to interview you, but you guys were featured on the show. Did you guys get a lot of, a lot of calls?

A We did. We, we, um, I mean, that was kind of the beginning of when Pomp Loose really started to take off. And, you know, we got calls from managers, we got calls, uh, from, you know, press, and, you know, that, when we came out with our second, like, big one that kind of really took off, which was Telephone by Lady Gaga, um, you know, we had a, we released a record, and, you know, at the end of the month, we logged into our bank account, and, like, we had sold 30,000 songs, and because we hadn't signed with a label, we owned all our own masters, and therefore we owned all the royalties, so we, we logged in our bank account at 22,000 bucks in it.

AI assessment note: “We did. We, we, um, I mean... we got calls from managers”

Q So what did you start to think about? I mean, this is February of 2013, and you're clearly, like, gears are turning in your head, and what do you, I mean, is there an idea starting to form in your mind about how to solve this?

A Yeah, I sat down at my kitchen table on a Sunday afternoon, and I, and what I was thinking about was, like, I like Kickstarter, but I want, I want to be paid, um, every month because I need income because I make stuff every month that's valuable to other people. And at the same time, you know, I was seeing other websites start to accept, you know, like membership organizations, not necessarily websites, but like membership organizations like SF MoMA or, um, you know, KQED would do these pledge drives. And it happened, it wasn't, you know, you could, you had the option in many of those cases to set up a monthly payment. And so I was like, great, like, I just want essentially that system.

AI assessment note: “what I was thinking about was, like, I like Kickstarter, but I want to be paid every month”

Q Not a good feeling. Alright, so you've got this burgeoning entrepreneurial business, um, and, and Jack, were you, like, Was any part of your mind in college about business, or were you really just focused on music?

A No, I, I don't think I was thinking about business at all. I was, um, I was a part of the film society at school, and so, and I, and I was also, um, there was a recording studio on campus, and so I was learning how to use a recording studio, and I was also, you know, because I was part of the film society, I was making movies, so I would make, you know, a few movies a year. And I would do soundtracks for other people and for myself, so I was, you know, I was a music major, and then, you know, in the, in the cracks, I was doing music and film, um, and, and all that kind of stuff. I was not building businesses.

AI assessment note: “No, I, I don't think I was thinking about business at all.”

Q blessing for, I mean, it's a horrible situation, of course, but, um, All of a sudden, you've got people at home, creators who cannot tour, who can't play in coffee houses, and you're not, you know, it's not like stadium-level bands that are going on Patreon, but, but people who might play to a hundred people, now they can't do it. Have you had a massive spike in people onboarding?

A I mean, yes, it's, it's been, it's been, um, wild to see. I mean, the pandemic has been such a brutal, uh, Thing in the world, and it's, it is so weird to think about, uh, you know, it is true that it has benefited Patreon, and, and that dichotomy is very strange for me. Like, I think that the way I'm trying to think about it is like, I'm glad something like Patreon exists to catch creative people right now in a moment like this. So for example, AEG, Live Nation, both canceled global touring operations. So very suddenly there are these creators who are looking forward at A year or two of, you know, touring and hundreds of thousands or millions or tens of millions of dollars of touring revenue that evaporated over the period of a week.

AI assessment note: “I mean, yes, it's, it's been, it's been, um, wild to see.”

Q So what, what were you guys studying in college? Um, Jack, let's start with you.

A I studied music. You know, my whole life, I'd been on the, arts had kind of been, like, the side thing, but I was on the, you know, the science and math kind of track, um, growing up, and, um, I loved physics in high school. I, I thought I wanted to be a physics major when I got to college, and then, uh, I remember getting to this, like, the next level of physics, and I was sitting in a class, and, um, I think movies often show you like one moment of realization and life is rarely like that. Life is usually like a slow burn, but this was really one moment of realization for me sitting in this physics class where I was like, this is not what I want to do. And, um, I, I just, I was just thinking about songs. I was thinking about my music theory class. I was thinking about other things and that's where my brain was going and I didn't want to do physics. And I, I remember, like, sitting on a bench after that physics class for probably 45 minutes. I just sat there and just thought about what that meant for me, because I was, I was, it was kind of a, one of those moments in college that feels pivotal, you know.

AI assessment note: “I studied music.”

Q So how are you going to do it?

A That was the part of me that decided to not think of Think about that. And, and it was terrifying. It was. I, I remember being pretty scared about that. And I also thought like, look, if I start being logical about this, I'm never going to make something that's great. It wasn't until about February of 2013 of 20 13 that I kind of, it almost felt like waking up, uh, after a dream. And, and, you know, watching my savings account go down basically to zero, and then maxing out a couple credit cards, and then feeling like I was almost, like, coming out of a dream or something. Wake, yeah, I felt like I was waking up and I was, like, suddenly very terrified about, like, what was on the other side. And I, I, the thought that I had in my mind was, I'm gonna upload this video to YouTube. It's gonna get a million views. And I knew that that Video would bring in maybe, you know, a hundred bucks.

AI assessment note: “That was the part of me that decided to not think of Think about that.”

Q know, they'll, they'll sort of ask us, how do we build community? How do we build buzz around this thing that we're doing? And, you know, that is the core, um, The foundation of what Patreon is about. It's about community and then the community supporting what you do. What are some ways you think founders, you know, particularly founders who have a product, right, can think about building community?

A Great question. Uh, it does not happen for free. Community is work, and effort, and intentionality. Um, building a community as a founder is different than building community as a creator. There are similarities, but I think it would be a mistake to assume it's, it's one for one, and so there have been things that have definitely, I've learned along the way in terms of building a community around my art and music as Pop Moose, and then Building community around a product and, and, um, you know, a platform for creators. Um, maybe some things I learned early on, like, gosh, it's so trite sounding, but really leaning into who you are as a person, and fearlessly being that person, even if it turns a lot of people off along the way, like, that's, it kind of has to start there. I feel like if you're kind of averaging yourself Off to appeal to as many people as possible. You kind of appeal to nobody. And what we see with creators on Patreon is the ones who are just almost like entirely unfiltered, who just empty their minds into a microphone, are the ones who build these incredibly rabid, loyal followings. Because, you know, if you think about the viewer's experience on the other side of that, you end up hearing Somebody who sounds more like a person and maybe sounds a bit more like me as a listener. Um, but like the more you're able to just really be yourself and, and, um, and then, …

AI assessment note: “really leaning into who you are as a person, and fearlessly being that person”