The Exchanges

Q woman working at a nonprofit, and from what I, from what I understand, you started, initially started working on it with Larry Wilmore, the comedian, who, of course, created the Bernie Mac shows on The Daily Show for many years, and, and had his own show, and, Lots of people know Larry Wilmore and his shows. Um, so how did that collaboration happen? How did you, how did that start?

A So after I sold my pitch to HBO, they, they bought this nonprofit idea. Um, then my managers were like, you know, you're, you're going to need a showrunner. You're going to need someone to help you run the show if it gets picked up. And I was like, oh, okay. Um, and so they suggested that I meet with Larry Wilmore and, you know, I was a fan of his work. And so we met, and we really hit it off. I loved him, and he was just like a, a strong voice, and was just really intent on bringing out my voice. And so then, you know, he was attached to the project and helped me to start to write the pilot.

AI assessment note: “so they suggested that I meet with Larry Wilmore and... we really hit it off.”

Q And then Color Creative was Initially, I guess, as you described, like initially was designed to identify Talent, and then develop scripts, and, and sort of, it was originally kind of a production company, right?

A Yeah, it was like a pipeline initially. It was meant to be a pipeline to bring in creators of color into the industry, using the model that I was able to, to do with Awkward Black Girl, in terms of creating a product, getting an audience around it, and Getting the attention of executives to be like, hey, you know, you don't have these people in your writer's rooms, but, and you're saying that this content doesn't have an audience, but look, we're proving you wrong. And then, you know, some of the writers that came, all of the writers that came out of that have ended up in television in some way, but we, Denise Davis and I, who I co-founded it with, um, found ourselves really helping, um, Helping them to find their next projects, whether it's recommending them to writer's room or initiatives or to write on certain films, and, uh, we also wanted to formalize that process. We were sending, we were finding them representation, and in some cases they would come back to us and be like, the representation you found, thank you. It's been great, but not really because they don't really know what to do with me. So we decided to kind of formalize that and make it, um, a management company.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, it was like a pipeline initially. It was meant to be a pipeline”

Q Um, all right. So the whole family moves out to LA, and you start middle school there, um, a magnet school that was a sort of a science-focused magnet school. Were you a science-focused kid?

A No, but my dad, again, you know, he was a doctor, and so I, and he was very clear about how proud he would be if one of us became doctors. So for me, I was like, it's gonna be me then. Of course I'm gonna make him proud. I'm gonna be a doctor too. Just like him. And of course, even seeing his practice, seeing his name. Yeah. On the clinic was special. Going to school, going to middle school and being like, oh, your last name is mispronounced. Diop. Jope. But you're, is your dad, like, is your dad my doctor? And that was special to me. So for me, that was, the vanity of it might have kind of stoked my interest in science and medicine.

AI assessment note: “No, but my dad, again, you know, he was a doctor”

Q Alright, you had written in your diary, I'm Awkward and Black, and did that idea just kind of go away for a couple years, or did it always kind of, I don't know, was there any connection to it becoming a show, or was it just, it was just you expressing your innermost thoughts?

A Yeah, I mean, so as you know, sometimes you'll write something down, and you'll be like, oh, that's something, but I'm not ready for it yet. But it's something, and I'm gonna come back to it, and it'll just stay in your head. It'll pop up occasionally when you're working on something else. And for me, I had a vision, like I told you, I had the initial idea to do t-shirts, and then ultimately, a couple weeks later, it was like, maybe this is an animated series. And I was stuck on that. I was like, oh, I want to do an animated series. Oh man, animation costs so much money. I'm not ready for it yet. And so, again, kept working, kept working, and then this article came out that was asking for my, the character that I imagined in my head, the Black Liz Lemon. They were like, where is the Black Liz Lemon? And where are these quirky Black characters? And that lit a fire in my ass, because I was like, I was like, if I'm reading this, Someone else is gonna read this and do my idea before me. I can't wait for this to be done in the way that I think it's supposed to be done. Like, it can be a live action series, and I can just make this for the internet and just get it out there for now.

AI assessment note: “I had the initial idea to do t-shirts, and then ultimately... an animated series”

Q And she is, like, one of the most successful showrunners in history, so you're there, like, a year after you launch this, maybe less than a year after you launch this thing, talking to her in a room, like, what do you remember about that?

A You know, I didn't realize that it was a year. That's, that is kind of crazy. But in some ways, it felt like, oh my gosh, this is, This is it. I'm finally here, and this is my opportunity. Like, being in that meeting for the first time, I was nervous, and you know, like, they were just so, so warm and welcoming. Betsy Beers is one of the funniest people, uh, ever, and so they put me at ease with their jokes, and so once they were like, oh, we want to do this with you, I was just, I was on cloud nine, and I worked up the courage to ask Shonda for a picture, and she was like, you want a picture with me? And I was like, uh, yes. So I still have that picture.

AI assessment note: “being in that meeting for the first time, I was nervous, and you know”

Q and I was asking him about performing in front of his parents, because a lot of his work is, um, you know, adult-oriented humor. And, um, you know, on your shows, like, you're talking about sex and your sex life and things like that, and I, um, is it ever, I don't know, is it ever awkward to, like, watch it or, like, know that your parents watch it, too?

A Oh my god. When I tell you this show, we just had a premiere for Rap Shit, and I was sitting next to my mom, instant regret. Like, I was, I don't know who did the seating, but my mom is very, you know, we were growing up, I couldn't watch PG-Thirteen movies till I was 13, rated R movies till I was 17. Like, parental controls were like, you know, all around the house, and so, The idea that I'm making the content that younger me wouldn't watch that she shielded me from, she just can't handle, and there was this big sex scene at the end of the second episode during the premiere, and we're sitting in this theater, and what sucks is, like, I watched her watch the first episode, and, like, be into it, laughing, and I felt her energy change when there was, like, Kind of an explicit scene, and I was like, oh, I'm feeling, I'm feeling the tension, and she was still trying to roll with it. By the time we got to that ending sex scene, I, like, fake covered her eyes, and she turned to me, and she was like, you should have done that a long time ago. And I was like, geez. And even afterwards, she was just like, she's, it's just not for her. And I realized, you know what? I've never invited her to a premiere again. Because, you know, I'm not really making content for her. When she can get behind it, she can get behind it. But it's, in short, it's extremely awkward. And it does kind of suck. B…

AI assessment note: “we just had a premiere for Rap Shit, and I was sitting next to my mom, instant regret.”

Q Yeah, and it's really hard to get anybody to take you seriously, and you're New York, and it's expensive, and it's stressful. Do you remember feeling anxious about just life?

A Oh, without a doubt. Anxious about life. I was living in the worst apartment. I was watching my friends on these very clear paths to me to do what they wanted to do. I would feel incredibly insecure just about where I was, because I was essentially... You know, making videos, just trying to make ends meet, taking odd jobs in the theater world still, but there was just, like, no progress to me. You can't really measure progress in the same way that you can measure, like, oh, you're in your second year of law school. You're about to take the bar. Oh, you are now a diplomat. Oh, you're doing, and that was just like, damn, everybody's killing it. And maybe my dad was right. Maybe I did. Maybe I should have had a backup plan. Maybe I should have taken College more seriously, so I could have something to fall back on, and that began my process of studying for the LSAT, and then ultimately the GMAT, just to be able to get a master's like he wanted me to do so badly.

AI assessment note: “Oh, without a doubt. Anxious about life. I was living in the worst apartment.”

Q And what, how did it go? I mean, how are you, was it just you in a room, or were you working with Tracy, or were you working with, yeah, how are you writing it?

A This was just me. This was me. By that time, Tracy was writing on a, on an ABC show, and so it was me working with one of their development executives at the time, and directly with Betsy Beers, because, you know, Shonda, she's the queen of drama, and Betsy was, uh, the head of comedy there. And I loved working with them. Their feedback was great. And then it was like, let's submit it to the studio and the network. And that was like a foreign concept to me. So I was like, okay, so the studio and the network are different. The studio gives me notes. I work on them. Give it back to the studio. Then it goes to the network. They give me notes. Those notes could be conflicting.

AI assessment note: “This was just me. This was me. By that time, Tracy was writing”

Q What did you, what did it, what did it mean for you to feel awkward and black? How did it, how did that, um, like what were things that, that made you feel that way?

A Well, what we just discussed about feeling ridiculously uncomfortable to just even go out to someone and introduce myself, the small moments in life that either made me feel uncomfortable or irritated me, and just, you know, how many of those things also had to do with my Blackness, too, and that realization just kind of made me laugh, and the, the fact that those two Didn't necessarily intersect, um, often, even publicly in images that I'd seen in media, and that, that, that was something that I wanted to explore. I felt special for realizing that, and felt special for having that identity, and also wanted to find my tribe. Like, who else, who else identifies the same way?

AI assessment note: “feeling ridiculously uncomfortable to just even go out to someone and introduce myself”

Q Well, that's the thing. Like, a lot of times, in that case, people would internalize feeling awkward, right? Like, you wouldn't express it, you wouldn't put it out there, but you did share that idea. I mean, which is a risk. I mean, putting yourself out there is, is kind of scary.

A I just didn't, well, I wanted to know that I wasn't alone, and I, and that was the first iteration of that idea after I wrote it down, was like, oh, I'm gonna make t-shirts. And to me, even t-shirts are like, if people are out there wearing, then you can point out someone else who identifies that way, and it's a conversation starter, or even, even, even if you don't start the conversation, it's a way to feel like, oh, I'm not, I'm not alone in this, that person over there is awkward too. So in a way, it's a defense mechanism to outwardly claim it before someone else claims it about you. Um, and also just be like, look, I know what it is, guys, ok? Just bear with me. I've already said what it is. Like, we've gotten that out the way.

AI assessment note: “it's a defense mechanism to outwardly claim it before someone else claims it about you”

Q you weren't going anywhere, you still had enough motivation to make little, like, you started on, on a web show called The F Word, um, which was, uh, kind of a, it was your brother was in it, and his friends, and, and tell me about just making that. Was it kind of, Just a fun side project to do, or did you think, what were you thinking about that?

A Yeah, when I, I will credit New York for giving me that hustle mentality. I left New York and came to LA, and LA felt so slow to me. Like, LA people will be like, I'm working on a script, and you'll be like, where's the script? And they'll be like, oh, it's coming, it's coming, I got you, I got you. New York, I'm working on the script. Where is it at? It's right here, and I got this, and I got that, you know, and like, they're, they just, they're ready, and so there was part of me that Didn't want to be the flaky LA person, so I realized, like, I have to show and prove. I have to get my hustle on. Like, I have to, I have to work, and I have to make these opportunities for myself, and I have to be ready at a moment's notice. And so, my brother had this music group. I asked if I could do his music video, and he was like, yeah, if you're gonna do it for free, absolutely. And when I was on that music video set, they were so funny together. You know, I was just like, y'all are, y'all are talented, but you're also funny, and you're funny together. I want to make, like, a show around you.

AI assessment note: “I have to make these opportunities for myself... I want to make, like, a show”

Q How, I read that you wrote the pilot in like eight days, and then you revised it over, over a period of weeks, but like, How did HBO respond to this pilot? I mean, that's, that's fast. You have this pilot, and you've got this concept, and let's go, let's make it.

A So the way it works is, you know, obviously the deals take a long time, and so, to, to, to put in place. So like, Larry is an established writer, creator, and so working on his deal took some time, and so in that time, we were meeting up, and just having conversations on his rooftop. What I didn't know was that was his process of kind of Figuring out what I had to say. Figuring out my point of view to lend to this main character. And so that was weeks of just a kind of a writer's boot camp, a workshop of sorts that we were able to, from those conversations, write that outline of what this show, what the pilot would be in like eight days. And they loved it. Initially, they were like, you guys are on the right track. This is dope. And gave us notes on that, but we went to script, which was like a big deal, and then even writing that script was really fast, and then that's when they were just like, this is good, but to them, it just wasn't an HBO show yet. One of the most common questions you get that I'll, that'll never leave my mind, but in, in pilots, there's always that question of why today? Why are we coming into this show today? And why are we following these characters on this specific day? What is our way in? And then, of course, where are we going? And I, you know, we were working on it for a couple of years, and Larry got the nightly show opportunity, and so that was, l…

AI assessment note: “And they loved it. Initially, they were like, you guys are on the right track.”