The Exchanges

Q So you get to LA, and what, what did you do? Did you start to go on auditions?

A I started going on auditions. You know, It was so different than New York because I remember the first audition I went to, I showed up, you know, gave my resume, my headshot, and they lined me up, and they were looking at my height, and then they go, okay, thanks for coming in, and I'm like, wait, do I get to read or act? No, I'm, I'm the wrong height, and I'm like, How about a courtesy? Cause like, I might be wrong for this, but you know, I found out, I think they, they'd hired the girl who was going to be in it. She was like five, one. So they kind of wanted a guy who was like five, eight. Now I'm five, 11. Uh, it was like, it was a very disrespectful process at the time I found.

AI assessment note: “I started going on auditions. You know, It was so different than New York”

Q But this was, he, he's basically saying, no, no, I'm the inventor. This is our product. Can you, can you explain what it was about it that, that appealed to you right away? I mean, it's, it's a, Non-stick pan with these, like, hexagon shapes on the, you know, on the lining of the pan. Why did it, why was that intriguing to you? Why was that interesting to you?

A Well, for a couple, a couple reasons. So to say, essentially what they do is they laser etch these hexagons. So the non-stick is sitting in the removed portion of metal, so it sits slightly recessed. So one of the biggest problems with non-stick pans with people, you scratch them with a And then they wind up peeling and flaking and they get, they get into your food and they, they last three months. Exactly. And also they don't, they don't sear very well. Um, you know, you, you essentially to get a good sear on a stainless or on a nonstick pan, you have to overheat the pan and you will destroy the pan to get a sear. So I'm like, wait a minute, you've got this steel, which you can get a sear at a lower medium heat. I'd been selling cookware for 15 years at that point. I'm like, people complained about not getting a good sear. They complained about their, their nonstick peeling. And then they're like, oh, by the way, because of the design, it's also oven safe to at least 500 degrees.

AI assessment note: “Well, for a couple, a couple reasons. So to say, essentially what they do”

Q Okay, so you start to talk to him, and at that Trade show at that point, I can't imagine you were thinking, I want to sell these, or were you? Were you thinking, I gotta, I gotta lock this up?

A I knew they had something special. It was not ready for the Western market, but I was excited about it. So, you know, when I went back to my hotel room, I was alone, and I called Cole, you know, and I'm like, this might be a winner. You know, we talked about it, and then, essentially, I went back the next day, we talked more, and They're, they're like, look, we're going to make some new samples a little bit deeper because they, they were too shallow. And, um, and I go, great. I go, I'll help you. I know, I know what I'll sell in America. So that was in the spring of 15. I wound up spending almost, I'd say until around August one of 16. So we, we probably spent 16 months working on the pans together.

AI assessment note: “I knew they had something special. It was not ready for the Western market”

Q So there wasn't a single investor you met with that was interested in?

A A few people mildly interested, but not really. And look, I didn't completely blame them. Part of me was like, you know, I'm like, I need to maybe do a better job of telling this story. But really what it is was consistently people were like, nobody's going to buy cookware this way. And it was, and it was, these were hard no's. They weren't like, let's go to committee. They were like hard nose. And so during, during 16 and 17, you know, we, I cashed out my four on one K that I'd had. I, my return, my Roth, my I took all the money out, paid penalties. I, everything I had saved up. I had 90% of my life savings by the, by the time we hit tied up in the company. We, we applied for credit cards, and we were paying one credit card with another credit card. You know, we may have even exaggerated a couple things to get another credit card.

AI assessment note: “A few people mildly interested, but not really.”

Q All right. So, so you prove this out, and now you are going, and, and what does that mean? Does that mean they, they come back to you and say, okay, well, let's go national?

A Well, immediately, they're like, great numbers, and we already had store two and three scheduled, so that means those are going to go through. In the couple days between the starting of stores two and three, they offer us two or three more stores, and we're like, yeah, let's do them. Well, Now store two goes equally as well. And we're like, we cannot afford to have inventory sitting around. So now we're, we're running into inventory problems. And we were still at this point, like having product come in unpackaged because we couldn't afford. So we would literally line up boxes in Cole's backyard and we'd run down a line and I'd be like, 12 inch pan, 12 inch pan, 12 inch pan, 10 inch pan, 10 inch pan.

AI assessment note: “they offer us two or three more stores, and we're like, yeah”

Q the exclusive distributor of this product, presumably for a country or territory, maybe more. Um, but this was different because it wasn't just that you were going to distribute his products. You were actually, you wanted him to design, to use his technology to design cookware, to design pans, to Pots, other things that you wanted to help him build because you had experience in that. How does that work?

A Well, I would say he was already working on cookware. He was thinking of the needs of the Korean market, which are slightly different than the needs of, say, the US market. So I was giving him feedback of what I would need To make that product successful in the U S and really this in the beginning was a handshake agreement. You know, there was a lot of faith on both parts and I know this is strange, but we, we trusted each other. Like when I still see him, I'll fly over once a year at least to see the factory and he and I just look at each other and we kind of laugh and hug because there was a lot of trust in it. He's like, I'm not gonna sell to anybody else in America, and you're gonna trust that I'm gonna make the product Great. And not cut you out. And for that first year, we both openly said we're taking chances on each other because they were very small. He just had this great idea and he had a factory to produce it. And I told him my, my plan. And I said, you know, I want to be a direct to consumer cookware brand. I go, I want to sell online because I want to control the story. And by the way, this unique design needs its story told.

AI assessment note: “So I was giving him feedback of what I would need To make that product”

Q and so you, of course, we know, I mean, people who know Hexclad know you made a, you came to an agreement with him, and And what did that mean? I mean, it meant that he would post on social media. Um, you would, you would film videos of him using it. What, what was it going to mean to have him as a brand ambassador and an equity holder?

A You know, we'd put faith in our relationship with Mr. Lee early on with your hopes that there's a follow through with everything. Yes, there, there's a contract that has X, Y, and Z deliverables. If, if that was the way we approach this relationship, I would say, I don't even know if we would still have a relationship with Gordon because it's been like a, a very fluid type of relationship. Like, yes, we're going to do a certain amount of content every year and Gordon's going to collab on some posts with us. And, you know, and he's like, I want to use the cookware in a lot of my restaurants. And that was all good, but what he didn't need to do, and it's not in any contract, was I'm going to put it on all my TV shows. So, you know, we started doing that, and like, they called me, and he's like, you know, I know we've been talking about doing something in Canada. He goes, I'm going to be in Vancouver at the end of February. Why don't we do an event? He didn't have to just offer that. It's like he, he does stuff like he's always thinking like, like what can we do to take this to the next level and the next level and the next level.

AI assessment note: “Like, yes, we're going to do a certain amount of content every year”

Q Were you Were you nervous about, about doing that in your fifties and your late forties? I mean, was it any part of you like, God, this is, I'm nervous. It's scary.

A There's a level of terror to it. Luckily, I think, um, very often ignorance is bliss, right? So what you don't know, you know, can't really hurt you, so to speak. So there were certain areas where I've said it a couple of times, I was naive, especially starting with juice preso and maybe this overconfidence that, Because I was a good salesman, and I really believed in the product. I could convince you that this was in your best interest to buy this. And we saw that business drop month by month by month. And the thing is, this is the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life, and it was one of the smartest things. Because I had to look, I had to look very closely at this, and go, this business is not salvageable. And my ego wanted to fix it. But the thing is, sometimes you got to pull the plug, right? And sometimes you need somebody else to tell you that. Um, it's very hard looking in the mirror. Sometimes, you know, very often we're looking all over the place for the reason why we're not doing well. And then we skip the mirror in this place. I played a role, but I misjudged the market. That's what I did wrong. I don't think the way I, I brought the product to market the way we tried to sell it. I think we did the right thing there. I misjudged the market, and shame on me, you know. And we were in the juicer business, like on a Tuesday night at five p.m., and the next morning…

AI assessment note: “There's a level of terror to it. Luckily, I think, um, very often ignorance is bliss”

Q Do you remember feeling anxious at that time? Just feeling a lot of anxiety about the future and about life?

A Um, there is a little bit, but I think in a way you still, I would say, you know, now I'm like, I'm probably about 27 ish. I'm still dumb enough to think, like, that, ah, you know, it's not me, it's them, and they're gonna see, and people are gonna wanna hire me, and, but I think what started creeping in was, I don't like failing at things, and I was feeling, beginning to feel like a failure. And the thing is, when you fail, like, look, you know, eventually at the end of the fourth quarter, right, they blow the whistle and the game's over. And there's no like, oh, I don't want to feel like a foul. Well, you did fail. Today you failed. So, so now you have to, you know, dust yourself off and decide how do I win next time? Whatever that looks like. Um, and I think that feeling was beginning to creep into my, my mind that one, I don't want to be seen as a failure. I don't like looking at myself in the mirror when I'm failing.

AI assessment note: “there is a little bit, but I think in a way you still”

Q Yeah, sure. Where were you selling them, by the way? Mainly online?

A So at that point, we were selling some online, some at trade shows. We try to find, like, kind of health and wellness and gourmet shows, um, ones that kind of lend themselves to a higher price point. And we had started selling them with Costco and their roadshow program. Mm-hmm. As well. What we were never expecting was in 15, that Whole Foods makes an announcement that we're putting a juice bar in every Whole Foods, fresh, squeezed, cold-pressed juice, that, you know, all of a sudden, Creation and Jamba Juice, they're, they're gonna even make real juice, not just delicious sugar, you know, juice. You know, we were holding hope that people aren't gonna pay 10 bucks for a juice, and This was, I've said it before, never underestimate the laziness of the American public because we want it now. We want it easy. And there's a juice place in, in LA called the Beverly Hills juice club. And I think that's the one I was in where I saw a girl order a juice and she didn't have enough money on her credit card to put it all on one card, I think. And I'm like, wait a minute. That was quite an aha moment. She doesn't have eight dollars or seven dollars, but she won't make it at home.

AI assessment note: “we were selling some online, some at trade shows... with Costco and their roadshow program”

Q So this is a period of like three, roughly three years where you're sort of going back and forth in and out of auditions, and did you, did you ever land? I mean, you must have landed some things.

A It's funny, the things that you land that get you going, and like, I don't even have access to this, but a couple of like short films that never really got anywhere. Maybe they played in a festival, but it was a really good role type of thing, and I can't even go into detail because I just, Barely remember them, but then I get like a couple commercials and, and sometimes you have a line and sometimes you don't, sometimes it's music and you're just on the beach and you're running around and, you know, and you and a girl are running down the sand and, you know, and that's the commercial and, um, you're like, well, I guess it's acting in a way.

AI assessment note: “a couple of like short films... but then I get like a couple commercials”

Q Badly injured. And you ended up, like, having to go through rehab and, like, walking with a cane for, like, a long time, many months. Back brace. What, what, what happened? I mean, Um, were you just, I mean, yeah, I mean, what happened?

A Well, you know, this, it's obviously one of these life-changing moments, and You know, it was a bad accident. I shattered my right leg. I broke vertebrae in my back, and I had to get better, but, and I, and obviously, when you're young and broke, now you're even broker, but you're not younger, so, and during that period, I said, number one focus is I have to make money. I don't know what that looks like. I'd never been so poor. You know, I, I had this moment, in fact, this is one of the, A pivotal moment in my life. And I don't know if I've ever told it publicly. I've told a few friends, but I was on crutches still. So I'd had like pins taken out of my leg, but I had to walk with, with crutches just because my legs weren't strong enough. And, um, and we lived, um, my buddy and I had a house in Eagle Rock, California, and we lived kind of on the side of the hill. And I had no money, and I, you know, at home, I couldn't work yet, so I'd be, until he came home from work, I'd be sitting in this house, and you know, we didn't have cell phones then, you know, I don't think we even had internet then, and the movie Braveheart came out, and I remember I had a free movie pass to the Glendale movie theater, so I'm like, I'm gonna go see this movie to cheer me up, and I, I crutch down the hill, and I go to the bus stop, you know, I have no car now, and I take the bus, I see Braveheart, you…

AI assessment note: “it was a bad accident. I shattered my right leg. I broke vertebrae”