The Exchanges

Q so new. It was so niche. I mean, I'm sure a lot of people that you knew in Wisconsin were like, would say, oh, where can I buy it? And you would say, oh, we're selling it on the internet. And they'd say, the internet? You're selling it on the internet? Well, what about in stores? Did you, did you ever try and pursue that, that path at the time?

A We did. I mean, we were trying to get into the stores all the time, and then at the time, I thought that was our Our path to success was to get into retail because then we'd have all these eyeballs looking at the product and all these retail stores out there that would, you know, if they had 2000 stores and you supply them each with two units, you know, that's pretty high volume. And so that was really what I was focused on, but we really didn't have the margin in the product and most of the retailers wanted 50 points on the product and there just wasn't a way that we could Provide that. We were maybe making 30 points at most on the product at the time. So there's no way really to make it attractive to the retailer. Plus, the unit was quite large.

AI assessment note: “We did. I mean, we were trying to get into the stores all the time”

Q So you had, and just, I think most people know this CAD is computer assisted design. You basically had The skill set because you had studied mechanical engineering and you've been doing some of this work. Um, and when you say you had like, kind of dabbled in some ideas, what were some of the ideas you dabbled in or, or thought about?

A Uh, I think, you know, one comes to mind. We had kids, young kids at the time, and so one of the ideas was a, um, basically a, a stand that you would put your, you know, the bottles that have the bags in them with the, with the formula. You always had to push the air out, so I, I, I designed a stand that you would push the air out of the baby bottle, and the stand was just a simple stand to do that, to fit inside the bottle, and then it had like a hexagonal shape on the bottom of it, so that if it Tipped over. It wouldn't roll off the table and just simple stuff like that. Um, but the truth of the matter was, is I had a lot of things kind of floating around in the back of my mind, but I was so busy running the business. I mean, it was, uh, It was a much more than even a full-time job getting that, uh, that business up and running, um, supporting these, these, uh, European suppliers. So there wasn't a lot of extra time to experiment with that stuff.

AI assessment note: “I designed a stand that you would push the air out of the baby bottle”

Q Doing it where in Pontiac, Michigan? At a, like, a warehouse you rented?

A Yeah, the, the building we were in actually was an old automotive factory. It was the original Oakland Automotive Company, and, uh, which eventually became Pontiac, and so we were in this, I think it's like a nineteen-ten structure, and, um, it's a concrete building, four stories tall, And it was on that fourth floor that we started building litter robots, and it was in the summertime, and I can remember it being very hot up there because, again, it was a concrete building. It didn't have any central air conditioning or anything like that. We had a window air conditioner, but that barely kept up because the concrete would heat up in the sun, and it would just bake.

AI assessment note: “the building we were in actually was an old automotive factory.”

Q guy who made the Segway. He was, I remember he was all over the news and he's invented a bunch of stuff. And so, Yeah, I mean, you're, you're just kind of keeping your eyes open. And, and, and one day, you, you start to think about cats and litter, litter. Tell me how, what, what, what happened? How, how that sort of idea starts to percolate in your mind?

A Well, I, I had had a couple of cats, and I had been having some trouble with them. They were Actually not going in their litter box. They were peeing outside of the litter box. And the reason for that is I wasn't getting down there quick enough to, or often enough to clean the litter box. I was going down maybe every other day and that was not enough for my cats. And so they would protest by peeing outside the box. And so one day I'm down there and I'm cleaning up the mess. I've got a bucket of water and bleach water. I'm on my hands and knees. I'm wiping up this, this urine and this is not a fun task. And I'm thinking, man, I've, I've got to figure out a way to keep this box clean all the time because this is just driving me nuts. So. That got me thinking about, well, how can I automate this? And it was more really about just solving my own problem at the time. And the more I thought about it, the more I thought, wow, this is, this could really be an interesting opportunity, because there's really nothing out there that addresses this concern, um, fully. There, there was at the time, there was another automatic litter box on the market, and it had just come out recently. It was Littermade, and it was okay, but it was, I ended up getting it to check it out, and it really did not work well with my cats, and that, that even, um, prompted me to, to look into this even further.

AI assessment note: “That got me thinking about, well, how can I automate this?”

Q But I, based on what I've read about you, your mind is constantly looking around for something else, something that might, I don't know, you might develop more of a passion around, like a product. Like you were really thinking about being a product entrepreneur. Is that, is that right?

A Yeah, that's, that's absolutely right. I mean, I had had this dream to develop a product, to be an inventor, um, for many years, and I had dabbled in a number of different things, but never really hit on the one thing that I thought I could take to a, to a business model. And product design was really my, one of my core skill sets too, is being able to take some kind of a functional requirement and then Create it either through pen and paper and then onto CAD. And then, um, and then the other aspect was it's one thing to design a product, but it's another to make it manufacturable, inexpensive. Um, all those things are integrated into the process of product development. And I had a, I think I had a knack for all of that and kind of integrating it all into a package.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, that's, that's absolutely right. I mean, I had had this dream”

Q And I think the early models were like. 300 bucks, right? So, uh, not a cheap product, certainly more expensive than a litter pan. Um, how, how, I mean, I can't imagine you were selling that many at in 2002 1001.

A We weren't in it. And it was in some ways by design, because like I mentioned before, we were trying to refine the product, trying to understand exactly how it would work the best, how the cats would use it. I mean, we would have certainly taken more volume if we could have gotten it, but it was kind of a blessing that the volumes were low because it allowed us to kind of take our time and learn and to adjust some things about the product. There's certainly quite a few things that we learned early on. Um, about cat behavior, how the cats would use it, and a lot of those changes got incorporated into the early models.

AI assessment note: “We weren't in it. And it was in some ways by design”

Q think 2012 is when you, you're still selling the little, the little robot too, um, and starting to think about maybe the next iteration, but how were you Again, you're living in Michigan, and you're also doing consulting. You're still running the consulting business, um, working with European auto parts makers. Was it just, that was your life? It was 12, 14 hour days, even 1012 years into the business?

A Yeah. Yeah, it was, it was really a grind for a while. But, you know, going back to what I said earlier, I'd rather die than not be independent, so that's what it took to remain independent, and I had this dream of building a great business around a great product idea, and if I wanted to do that, I had to keep the other business going. I think, I think over those years, one of the things I was able to do is compartmentalize things. So I'm, I can focus and that's maybe a problem I have is I get really, I can focus on something and I won't hear anything else going on around me. And so the, you know, the house can be burning down over here and I'm focusing on this to get it done, even though this is happening over here. And I think you had to do some of that during those years where there were a lot of things happening and you just had to, it would be overwhelming if you thought about them all together. But by breaking them down and focusing on things, knocking them out one at a time, just focusing on it, finishing it, and going on to the next thing. Over time, that starts to build some momentum. Where you can really get in trouble is if you start trying to do too much all at once, and you start thinking about all the things you have to do. It can just bury you.

AI assessment note: “Yeah. Yeah, it was, it was really a grind for a while.”

Q and Jacob Become CEO. He's now the CEO of the company. Tell me a little bit about that decision. Did you feel like you sort of, I mean, you grinded for most of those 22 years? Maybe all of them, really. Did you just feel like I, I did everything I wanted to do, and now I just kind of want to, I don't know, chill out a little bit?

A No, it wasn't really about, about that. It was recognizing that the business was changing. My skill set was being able to do a lot of different things fairly well and wear a lot of different hats in the business. And that was how I was able to survive for so long without having to hire a lot of people is because I was able to do a lot of different things and kind of fill the gaps and just, you know, do everything. And I will say that there's probably nothing in the business that I haven't done, including cleaning the toilets. And when the company gets larger. It's, it's more about building teams. It's more about hiring the right people. It's not about that one individual person that can do it all. It's, it's, you know, how do we bring in the right people? How do we collaborate more effectively? And I felt like, you know, Jacob really, he really wanted this and he had proven himself as the operations officer. And I always kind of described him as the glue that kind of held everybody together as we were growing. And, you know, I'm still there. I'm still here today. I'm in my office and I'm, you know, I'm still active in product development and I still have my opinion about things, you know, that the hills that I need to die on, I'm, I'm still going to die on those hills, but there's a lot of hills that I used to want to die on that I, you know, it's okay. I'm going to let somebod…

AI assessment note: “No, it wasn't really about, about that. It was recognizing that the business was changing.”

Q know, supply chain. Um, you know, this is like, you know, people are, these are a country club set people, obviously the executives. When you went to some of your contacts, and you said, hey, um, I've got a side project, I want to make a litter box, can I work with you guys on, on like the, did, did any of those people say, what, what, what, a what?

A Yeah, there were, there were times when people kind of gave me a strange look, but look, I think they, They were happy to help me out. They, they may have thought whatever they thought, but as long as I was willing to pay them for their time and their effort, um, I think they didn't really mind or care what it was for, and I have to admit, there were times when I, when I did feel a little embarrassed around it, and, but I was just so driven to do it, and I thought it was, you know, it, the concept worked so well, and I knew that there was a place for it, so I was driven to make it work, um, My kids were also very embarrassed. Um, they never really wanted to say what their dad did.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, there were, there were times when people kind of gave me a strange look”