The Exchanges

Q So, so once you get into Galleons, was it just like a game changer? I mean, did you see your business just like skyrocket?

A It was a game changer because once it, what happened was, uh, most of our business then and now is a specialty mom and pop business. So the mom and pops will take a look at the big guys and try to find brands sometimes that different, uh, retailers are carrying. And Galleons was Kind of a model citizen that a lot of small retailers looked up to, and so once we were in Galleons, we were in all these geographic locations, and there was great visibility for us, so all of a sudden our phones were ringing like crazy from other retailers, from other territories, and so Galleons was probably responsible for hundreds of new accounts over the next year or two, and business really started booming, you know, it went from that 250,000 to 620 Then we broke a million at 1.2.

AI assessment note: “business really started booming, you know, it went from that 250,000 to 620”

Q And what were your parents like? I mean, were they, like, warm and fuzzy? Were they strict? Like, were they different kinds of people?

A Well, they were really different from each other. Our dad was very structured and, uh, idealistic and, And definitely a math and science sort of engineering type of mind. And our mom was the absolute opposite. Gregarious, outgoing, always laughing, dancing, very creative. But then I think, um, you know, they, they went through some, some big changes when, when John and I were in elementary school. Our parents were in a near-death car accident. And that seems to be a bit pivotal because, um, Our dad lost the use of his right arm entirely, and he never really regained that. He was a gifted craftsman, he was a, um, avid outdoorsman, and I think he was pretty frustrated that he, that he couldn't do those things any longer.

AI assessment note: “Well, they were really different from each other. Our dad was very structured”

Q And what you're just, like, going around Boston and, and, like, setting up tables and selling them? How, yeah, how were you selling them?

A We had two duffel bags, and, uh, after the first six months, we bought a Massachusetts State Hawkers and Peddlers license, and we also bought a, uh, Boston City Hawkers and Peddlers license. That was helpful because, you know, the police would, when you're on the street selling, police will approach you Most of the time, they would say, you can't sell here. Okay, so like, we would try to sell right in Harvard Square on the street. You can't sell there. They, the cops would move you out. We'd try to sell near Faneuil Hall. By the time you went where it was legal for the hawkers and peddlers license, you'd be on some sidewalk where there's no foot traffic. It would be impossible. So you had to kind of push it every day, and every day we...

AI assessment note: “We had two duffel bags, and, uh, after the first six months, we bought”

Q Um, let's start with your COVID response in general. I mean, as you, you're in Massachusetts, Massachusetts really took this very seriously. Once this really became clear that this was a serious thing, how did you respond? I mean, presumably you told your employees don't come in, right?

A That's correct. Uh, we, we, Closed down the office in, in Boston. We have two locations, um, Boston and Southern New Hampshire, and Southern New Hampshire is more of a kind of the muscle of the business. It's our distribution center, and we do some finishing systems there, et cetera. Um, there are some other departments like finance that are up there, but Boston, we immediately closed down because we are operating in a building where there's other companies and brands, so we didn't think that was a safe environment. You know, you asked, what did we first do? We first met on Zoom and discussed what to do, and it was pretty grim, like many companies, so our business is structured in a way where half of our business was wholesale, and that means the high majority of those retailers closed their doors, canceled their orders, and our business was pretty close to being decimated, so we were having discussions candidly about bankruptcy and about laying off at least half of our staff. Thankfully, then we had one evening where we kind of discussed the old analogy, sports analogy, we're sports fans about how the best defense is offense, and we looked at strategies that we've been trying to develop, and a really central one is that we've been trying to move what is a 12 to 18 month supply chain window Into a couple of days, and we've invested in technology, and we've been taking baby step…

AI assessment note: “That's correct. Uh, we, we, Closed down the office in, in Boston.”

Q I'm just trying to put myself in, in the position of, like, a college student at that time, and I get a knock on the door, and then there'd be these two guys, or one guy, like, with a duffel bag, and you would say, what? Like, I'd be like, yes, and then you would say, what?

A Any interest in a t-shirt like this, and you just take it out and hawk it. And it was actually not an uncommon thing. I don't know about these days, but banging on the door and selling t-shirts was something people did. What was unusual was, Uh, for us was that we would knock on someone's door and we'd be down in Virginia, you know, and they would say, uh, what year are you guys? And we'd say, we don't go to school. They say, where are you from? And we'd say, Boston. They'd say, well, what are you doing down here? And when we explained to people that we'd been traveling in a van selling t-shirts from Boston, they were blown away.

AI assessment note: “Any interest in a t-shirt like this, and you just take it out and hawk”

Q What happened in, in 1994? How did you, what happened to your t-shirt business that made you think, you know, we, we should really do this. What was a thing that happened?

A The actual idea for life is good. We sort of stumbled into that. We do, we got to the point where the business was performing, you know, poorly enough that we couldn't even sustain it. So we took jobs as substitute teachers back in Boston, and we got an apartment together. So we'd work as substitute teachers for a couple of months, and then we'd get on the road for about six weeks at a time, and then we'd teach for a little while, and then we'd, we'd take off. And we got to have this ritual where when we came back to Boston, we'd throw a keg party, and we'd invite all of our friends, and we'd put all of our artwork up on the walls, and we'd kind of have a focus, focus group. We'd, we'd let our friends write on the walls and tell us what they liked and didn't like. And that's when one of the things that went up on the wall, the, the Jake, um, drawing went up, and it didn't say life is good under it. It said draw. So it was this idea that Jake was an artist.

AI assessment note: “we'd throw a keg party, and we'd invite all of our friends”

Q How did you, how did you get the trademark on it? I mean, it seems like a very common phrase, life is good, but you got it, you got the trademark. How did that happen?

A Well, we failed five times. We, we were going to the Boston Public Library at night because we couldn't afford an attorney, and we sent five applications and failed, and then I went one night to play basketball, and some guy asked me, did I see you and your brother selling t-shirts in front of the Boston Garden the other night, and I said, yeah, and he said, how's that going? Not so good, but we have this great idea, and I went on and on about what the concept was and that we were trying to trademark it, And then I realized that I'd been rude and not asked the guy what he did. I said, what do you do for a living? And he said, I'm a trademark attorney.

AI assessment note: “we were trying to trademark it... he said, I'm a trademark attorney.”

Q What is the difference between, you know, irrational optimism and rational optimism?

A Yeah, irrational optimism says life is great every single day, no matter what. Everything's great. There's forest fires going. There's a global pandemic. But today's just a perfect day. That you're out to lunch, if you believe that. We say rational optimism because we recognize that life isn't easy and life isn't perfect, that there's real challenges. These are real difficult things that are going on, but we believe that the best, most powerful tool we have for overcoming challenges is our disposition, our view, because optimists Tend to be innovative. They tend to find solutions. You know, this is a business show, right? So we're talking about how to get through this difficult time. It's about adaptation. We listen closely to our customers. It's a dialogue. And anybody listening, you have a business. You know, the world's changing. You can't have the same business. We have to adapt. And in our own personal lives, in order to fight off a heavy sadness and depression and becoming paralyzed by all of this, We have to adapt, you know, and, and we have to find healthy coping mechanisms.

AI assessment note: “irrational optimism says life is great... rational optimism because we recognize that life isn't easy”

Q And did it change the way he looked at life once he lost use of, of his hand?

A Yeah, I just think he became frustrated with his body, and he was a pretty physical guy, and, um, it certainly did seem, when we look at kind of before and after that, that he became depressed, and that depression seemed to manifest itself in, uh, constant yelling and screaming, and he'd go on these tirades, just screaming and yelling at everything, whether it was us, or our mom, or You know, footballs lying in on the ground, or baseballs, or anything, the house falling apart. I think that it was already very challenging, and there was tremendous economic strain, and maybe that American dream was felt as though it crumbled down, and it always seemed manageable to us as kids, but we, we really weren't seeing it through the eyes of the person who was responsible for things.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, I just think he became frustrated with his body... he became depressed”

Q And Bert, what are your thoughts on that? I mean, did, did you ever consider, you know, wanting to sell the business?

A Well, in a lot of ways, we really feel like we're just getting warmed up. It honestly feels like a startup today. We're, we're like a 25 year old startup. We're, there's all these young people walking around that remind us of ourselves, but are much faster and stronger and smarter, and I'm not, ah, operating the business. I was president and CEO for a long time, and we replaced me with a woman that actually came from our non-profit side, And she's killing it, and you can tell pretty quickly that she's about 10 times the operator that I was, and it's allowing me to dive back into the creative, and I haven't been there in a while. So, we're really kind of back to where we started in the beginning. Hey, let's design some t-shirts, but now we have a really strong balance sheet. We own a hundred percent of the business, and, you know, we have no intention of going public or selling the business. We just want to see, you know, how far we can take this and at some point figure out what to do with the structure, something creative. Maybe we do an ESOP to our staff. Maybe we even sell it to our customers. Something that enables the, that will enable the best work of life is good to be done after Johnny and I are dead and gone.

AI assessment note: “we have no intention of going public or selling the business.”

Q out of college, and it was like grunge and cynicism, especially among young people. Like, that was the way to be. Life is good. Like, you must have gotten a lot of eye rolls, right? Like, that, it just seems so counterintuitive to try and sell that to college kids at a time when so many of them would have been like, You guys are lame, or this is silly.

A Yeah, there's, there was definitely, uh, we got our share of that, and once we started selling it to retailers, even the ones who were doing well with it would say to us, I've seen a lot of t-shirt brands come and go, this will be gone in two years. But, if we can, back up a minute, like, I think before selling the t-shirts, we felt really connected to To this message. And when we were growing up, you know, we talked about our dad's depression and the yelling and screaming, but maybe touched a little on our mother's role, but there was a, um, huge influence she had on us in teaching us that you have control over your energy and that, and so she started this ritual at the dinner table where she'd look around at her six kids and say, tell me something good that happened today. In fact, later we went back to her and said, you know, you were the, uh, original inspiration for Life is Good. And she said, well, you know, how is that? And we said, you know, when you ask, tell me something good. And she kind of pushed it off and said, I was doing that for me. I was doing that for my own psyche, you know. But it's interesting because, um, she, she probably was doing it for her own sake, but we benefited tremendously, and we kind of got taught this lesson that You know, rather than be the victims of this dysfunctional home, we, we can look around and focus on what's right with our lives, …

AI assessment note: “there was definitely, uh, we got our share of that”