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Oct 23, 2017 · 45m · how-i-built-this

Burton Snowboards: Jake Carpenter

Jake Burton Carpenter · 25m spoken Guy Raz · 12m spoken Jane Ock · 1m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Burton Snowboards founder Jake Burton Carpenter shares the entrepreneurial journey of transforming a primitive snow toy into a global sporting empire, navigating intense industry resistance, corporate hurdles, and life-threatening health battles.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 32.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Guy as informed peer 2.6 Guest teaching 2.4 Guest disagreement 0.6 Guy pushing back 0.7
05100:0015:0030:0045:002:16–7:50 · Guy as informed peer 2/10 Childhood Attachment to Snow and the Snurfer Phenomenon Guy Raz sets up Carpenter's early life and background with the Snurfer toy. Carpenter playfully teases Raz about being clueless when asked if he had a professional woodshop in his apartment.7:51–13:55 · Guy as informed peer 2/10 Developing Prototypes, Market Rejection, and Early Struggles Carpenter recounts creating prototypes in Vermont and California and facing continuous market rejection, including returning with more boards than he left with. The dynamic is collaborative storytelling without conflict.13:55–20:51 · Guy as informed peer 3/10 Grassroots Marketing, Resort Resistance, and Sponsoring Craig Kelly Raz summarizes the strategic power of signing athlete Craig Kelly, which Carpenter wholeheartedly endorses. They discuss early resort bans and grassroots marketing efforts.21:07–27:57 · Guy as informed peer 3/10 Industry Rivalries, Financing Challenges, and Olympic Clashes Carpenter firmly shatters Raz's romanticized framing of snowboarding entering the 1998 Olympics, explaining that the governing ski federation completely sidelined pioneers and botched the event.27:59–33:59 · Guy as informed peer 4/10 Burton Corporate Culture, Economic Recession, and Management Overhaul Raz pushes Carpenter with pointed questions about internal company culture, probing whether Carpenter personally created fear-based management or struggled to take criticism.34:02–40:47 · Guy as informed peer 3/10 Life-Threatening Health Battles and Philosophical Perspective Carpenter opens up about his battle with Miller-Fisher syndrome and ICU paralysis. Raz listens attentively, asking empathetic questions about his physical state and philosophical takeaways.40:53–44:44 · Guy as informed peer 1/10 'How You Built That': The Guac-Lock and Episode Conclusion In the 'How You Built That' segment, guest Jane Ock presents the Guac-Lock invention, and Raz jokes lightheartedly about child locks before closing the episode.2:16–7:50 · Guest teaching 2/10 Childhood Attachment to Snow and the Snurfer Phenomenon Guy Raz sets up Carpenter's early life and background with the Snurfer toy. Carpenter playfully teases Raz about being clueless when asked if he had a professional woodshop in his apartment.7:51–13:55 · Guest teaching 2/10 Developing Prototypes, Market Rejection, and Early Struggles Carpenter recounts creating prototypes in Vermont and California and facing continuous market rejection, including returning with more boards than he left with. The dynamic is collaborative storytelling without conflict.13:55–20:51 · Guest teaching 2/10 Grassroots Marketing, Resort Resistance, and Sponsoring Craig Kelly Raz summarizes the strategic power of signing athlete Craig Kelly, which Carpenter wholeheartedly endorses. They discuss early resort bans and grassroots marketing efforts.21:07–27:57 · Guest teaching 5/10 Industry Rivalries, Financing Challenges, and Olympic Clashes Carpenter firmly shatters Raz's romanticized framing of snowboarding entering the 1998 Olympics, explaining that the governing ski federation completely sidelined pioneers and botched the event.27:59–33:59 · Guest teaching 2/10 Burton Corporate Culture, Economic Recession, and Management Overhaul Raz pushes Carpenter with pointed questions about internal company culture, probing whether Carpenter personally created fear-based management or struggled to take criticism.34:02–40:47 · Guest teaching 3/10 Life-Threatening Health Battles and Philosophical Perspective Carpenter opens up about his battle with Miller-Fisher syndrome and ICU paralysis. Raz listens attentively, asking empathetic questions about his physical state and philosophical takeaways.40:53–44:44 · Guest teaching 1/10 'How You Built That': The Guac-Lock and Episode Conclusion In the 'How You Built That' segment, guest Jane Ock presents the Guac-Lock invention, and Raz jokes lightheartedly about child locks before closing the episode.2:16–7:50 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Childhood Attachment to Snow and the Snurfer Phenomenon Guy Raz sets up Carpenter's early life and background with the Snurfer toy. Carpenter playfully teases Raz about being clueless when asked if he had a professional woodshop in his apartment.7:51–13:55 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Developing Prototypes, Market Rejection, and Early Struggles Carpenter recounts creating prototypes in Vermont and California and facing continuous market rejection, including returning with more boards than he left with. The dynamic is collaborative storytelling without conflict.13:55–20:51 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Grassroots Marketing, Resort Resistance, and Sponsoring Craig Kelly Raz summarizes the strategic power of signing athlete Craig Kelly, which Carpenter wholeheartedly endorses. They discuss early resort bans and grassroots marketing efforts.21:07–27:57 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Industry Rivalries, Financing Challenges, and Olympic Clashes Carpenter firmly shatters Raz's romanticized framing of snowboarding entering the 1998 Olympics, explaining that the governing ski federation completely sidelined pioneers and botched the event.27:59–33:59 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Burton Corporate Culture, Economic Recession, and Management Overhaul Raz pushes Carpenter with pointed questions about internal company culture, probing whether Carpenter personally created fear-based management or struggled to take criticism.34:02–40:47 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Life-Threatening Health Battles and Philosophical Perspective Carpenter opens up about his battle with Miller-Fisher syndrome and ICU paralysis. Raz listens attentively, asking empathetic questions about his physical state and philosophical takeaways.40:53–44:44 · Guest disagreement 0/10 'How You Built That': The Guac-Lock and Episode Conclusion In the 'How You Built That' segment, guest Jane Ock presents the Guac-Lock invention, and Raz jokes lightheartedly about child locks before closing the episode.2:16–7:50 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Childhood Attachment to Snow and the Snurfer Phenomenon Guy Raz sets up Carpenter's early life and background with the Snurfer toy. Carpenter playfully teases Raz about being clueless when asked if he had a professional woodshop in his apartment.7:51–13:55 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Developing Prototypes, Market Rejection, and Early Struggles Carpenter recounts creating prototypes in Vermont and California and facing continuous market rejection, including returning with more boards than he left with. The dynamic is collaborative storytelling without conflict.13:55–20:51 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Grassroots Marketing, Resort Resistance, and Sponsoring Craig Kelly Raz summarizes the strategic power of signing athlete Craig Kelly, which Carpenter wholeheartedly endorses. They discuss early resort bans and grassroots marketing efforts.21:07–27:57 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Industry Rivalries, Financing Challenges, and Olympic Clashes Carpenter firmly shatters Raz's romanticized framing of snowboarding entering the 1998 Olympics, explaining that the governing ski federation completely sidelined pioneers and botched the event.27:59–33:59 · Guy pushing back 4/10 Burton Corporate Culture, Economic Recession, and Management Overhaul Raz pushes Carpenter with pointed questions about internal company culture, probing whether Carpenter personally created fear-based management or struggled to take criticism.34:02–40:47 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Life-Threatening Health Battles and Philosophical Perspective Carpenter opens up about his battle with Miller-Fisher syndrome and ICU paralysis. Raz listens attentively, asking empathetic questions about his physical state and philosophical takeaways.40:53–44:44 · Guy pushing back 0/10 'How You Built That': The Guac-Lock and Episode Conclusion In the 'How You Built That' segment, guest Jane Ock presents the Guac-Lock invention, and Raz jokes lightheartedly about child locks before closing the episode.

speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Guy 73.8% · guest 26.2%0:00 · Guy 73.8% · guest 26.2%3:00 · Guy 36.3% · guest 63.7%3:00 · Guy 36.3% · guest 63.7%6:00 · Guy 15.9% · guest 84.1%6:00 · Guy 15.9% · guest 84.1%9:00 · Guy 25.4% · guest 74.6%9:00 · Guy 25.4% · guest 74.6%12:00 · Guy 20.8% · guest 79.2%12:00 · Guy 20.8% · guest 79.2%15:00 · Guy 10.9% · guest 89.1%15:00 · Guy 10.9% · guest 89.1%18:00 · Guy 37.4% · guest 62.6%18:00 · Guy 37.4% · guest 62.6%21:00 · Guy 38% · guest 62%21:00 · Guy 38% · guest 62%24:00 · Guy 25.3% · guest 74.7%24:00 · Guy 25.3% · guest 74.7%27:00 · Guy 20.6% · guest 79.4%27:00 · Guy 20.6% · guest 79.4%30:00 · Guy 18.3% · guest 81.7%30:00 · Guy 18.3% · guest 81.7%33:00 · Guy 23.4% · guest 76.6%33:00 · Guy 23.4% · guest 76.6%36:00 · Guy 24.5% · guest 75.5%36:00 · Guy 24.5% · guest 75.5%39:00 · Guy 50.7% · guest 49.3%39:00 · Guy 50.7% · guest 49.3%42:00 · Guy 71.8% · guest 28.2%42:00 · Guy 71.8% · guest 28.2%45:00 · Guy 0% · guest 0%45:00 · Guy 0% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 26:03 Rejecting Olympic romanticism

Jake immediately and bluntly rejects Guy's expectation that snowboarding joining the Olympics was an amazing, celebratory milestone.

 Hardest push from Guy ▶ 32:24 Drilling into founder responsibility

Guy presses Jake on whether he personally enabled toxic culture and whether his ego prevented him from accepting criticism.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 26:03 Educating host on Olympic mismanagement

Jake corrects Guy's positive assumptions by detailing how the FIS failed to consult founders, misspelled the sport's name, and ran dangerous races in rainstorms.

 Guy holds their own ▶ 19:34 Synthesizing Craig Kelly's impact

Guy demonstrates strong industry insight into sports branding and culture creation by detailing Craig Kelly's transformative endorsement role.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicGuy as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementGuy pushing backWhy
Childhood Attachment to Snow and the Snurfer Phenomenon 2210 Guy Raz sets up Carpenter's early life and background with the Snurfer toy. Carpenter playfully teases Raz about being clueless when asked if he had a professional woodshop in his apartment.
Developing Prototypes, Market Rejection, and Early Struggles 2200 Carpenter recounts creating prototypes in Vermont and California and facing continuous market rejection, including returning with more boards than he left with. The dynamic is collaborative storytelling without conflict.
Grassroots Marketing, Resort Resistance, and Sponsoring Craig Kelly 3200 Raz summarizes the strategic power of signing athlete Craig Kelly, which Carpenter wholeheartedly endorses. They discuss early resort bans and grassroots marketing efforts.
Industry Rivalries, Financing Challenges, and Olympic Clashes 3521 Carpenter firmly shatters Raz's romanticized framing of snowboarding entering the 1998 Olympics, explaining that the governing ski federation completely sidelined pioneers and botched the event.
Burton Corporate Culture, Economic Recession, and Management Overhaul 4214 Raz pushes Carpenter with pointed questions about internal company culture, probing whether Carpenter personally created fear-based management or struggled to take criticism.
Life-Threatening Health Battles and Philosophical Perspective 3300 Carpenter opens up about his battle with Miller-Fisher syndrome and ICU paralysis. Raz listens attentively, asking empathetic questions about his physical state and philosophical takeaways.
'How You Built That': The Guac-Lock and Episode Conclusion 1100 In the 'How You Built That' segment, guest Jane Ock presents the Guac-Lock invention, and Raz jokes lightheartedly about child locks before closing the episode.

Statements from this episode (12)

Assertion Supported
Brunswick sold 800,000 Snurfers before the modern snowboard era
“Brunswick made them, they sold 800,000 or something like that.”
Jake Burton Carpenter Oct 23, 2017 ▶ 3:20
Disclosure
Jake Burton Carpenter spent $150,000 of his inheritance funding Burton Snowboards
“I inherited almost 200,000 dollars, and I spent 150 of it developing Burton.”
Jake Burton Carpenter Oct 23, 2017 ▶ 6:52
Disclosure
Carpenter's original goal was to manufacture 50 snowboards per day
“My original plan was to make 50 boards a day. That was always sort of my goal.”
Jake Burton Carpenter Oct 23, 2017 ▶ 10:51
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Carpenter returned from a 38-board sales trip with 40 snowboards
“I remember once going out with 38 snowboards, and I drove around New York State and visited dealers, and I went out with 38, and I came home with 40. Guy Raz: 40 snowboards? Jake Burton Carpenter: Because one guy had given me two back that he'd bought and said…”
Jake Burton Carpenter Oct 23, 2017 ▶ 12:08
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Burton Snowboards sold roughly 350 boards during its first year
“First year was 300 or three 50. Second year was 700.”
Jake Burton Carpenter Oct 23, 2017 ▶ 13:42
Disclosure
Burton signed professional snowboarder Craig Kelly for $17,000 a year
“And so we cut a deal, and he rode for me, and I paid him 17,000 bucks a year.”
Jake Burton Carpenter Oct 23, 2017 ▶ 19:20
Opinion
Incumbent ski companies were completely oblivious to the rise of snowboarding
“It's just so funny that the ski companies were so oblivious to what was going on in front of their eyes. I mean, talk about close-minded, you know.”
Jake Burton Carpenter Oct 23, 2017 ▶ 20:15
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Burton Snowboards doubled its annual unit sales for 20 straight years
“We've doubled the number of snowboards sold for the first 20 years, I think, of the company, so Sims was a threat at one point.”
Jake Burton Carpenter Oct 23, 2017 ▶ 22:34
Disclosure
Burton Snowboards relied on working capital rather than long-term debt
“We've never needed long-term debt. But we've always had this need for working capital”
Jake Burton Carpenter Oct 23, 2017 ▶ 23:42
Disclosure
Burton gives the entire company a day off after two-foot snowfalls
“I mean, if it snows over two feet, it's an automatic day off for the whole company.”
Jake Burton Carpenter Oct 23, 2017 ▶ 29:04
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Burton paid a $4 million bank fee to amend a loan covenant
“Well, the bank charged us four million dollars to change one paragraph in our loan agreement, which was called a covenant. When you're borrowing money, your earnings had to represent a certain ratio compared to how much money you were borrowing, and we slipped…”
Jake Burton Carpenter Oct 23, 2017 ▶ 30:05
Disclosure
Jake Burton Carpenter refused to entertain buyout offers for Burton Snowboards
“I just didn't take those phone calls.”
Jake Burton Carpenter Oct 23, 2017 ▶ 34:07
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