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Nov 5, 2018 · 47m · how-i-built-this

Barre3: Sadie Lincoln (2017)

Sadie Lincoln · 26m spoken Guy Raz · 13m spoken Alexander Harik · 1m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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On NPR's How I Built This, Barre3 founder Sadie Lincoln details how she transitioned from corporate fitness executive to entrepreneur, creating an internationally recognized boutique movement brand anchored in intuitive wellness, community, and sustainable growth.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 33.2% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Guy as informed peer 2.0 Guest teaching 1.5 Guest disagreement 0.5 Guy pushing back 0.6
05100:0015:0030:0045:003:30–7:05 · Guy as informed peer 1/10 Sadie Lincoln's Counterculture Childhood Guy Raz conducts a warm biographical exploration of Sadie Lincoln's childhood in a 1960s women's commune in Taos and Eugene. Lincoln reflects openly on feeling like an odd kid and her poor academic record without any friction.7:07–10:34 · Guy as informed peer 2/10 24 Hour Fitness and Meeting Chris Raz guides the narrative through Lincoln's career at 24 Hour Fitness and meeting her husband Chris. The tone is entirely collaborative and conversational as Lincoln describes her early corporate fitness background.10:35–16:10 · Guy as informed peer 1/10 The Crisis of Purpose and the Spreadsheet Plan Lincoln details her personal disillusionment with traditional fitness culture and calories-in-calories-out metrics, contrasting it with the intuitive health sparked during pregnancy. Raz facilitates her story about Chris's plan to sell everything and drop out.16:10–21:56 · Guy as informed peer 2/10 Launching Barre3 in Portland Raz asks about positioning barre in Portland and gently admits confusion over what barre actually was at the time. Lincoln clarifies how she differentiated Barre3 from dogmatic methods by empowering clients to adapt movements.22:12–27:22 · Guy as informed peer 2/10 Physical Toll and Franchising Barre3 Lincoln recounts physical burnout from teaching 19 classes a week and pivoting quickly to an owner-operated franchise model without venture capital. Raz asks clarifying business questions on margins and early overseas expansion.27:22–36:29 · Guy as informed peer 4/10 Resisting the Guru Persona and Pausing Growth Raz pushes back using Five Guys founder Jerry Murrell's deep skepticism of franchising to ask whether Lincoln feared losing quality control. Lincoln firmly rejects the comparison, arguing her product is human empowerment rather than a burger, and explains why she rejected the celebrity guru model.36:29–42:25 · Guy as informed peer 3/10 Sustainable Business, Partnership, and Miguel McKelvey Raz introduces Angie's List and sustainable business models to discuss prioritizing endurance over aggressive scaling. Lincoln connects business sustainability directly to long-term physical wellness and reflects on her sibling connection with WeWork co-founder Miguel McKelvey.42:34–46:35 · Guy as informed peer 1/10 How You Built That: Alexander Harik and Zesty Z Raz narrates a post-interview feature segment profiling Alexander Harik and his Lebanese za'atar spread company Zesty Z. The dynamic is purely storytelling and promotional.3:30–7:05 · Guest teaching 1/10 Sadie Lincoln's Counterculture Childhood Guy Raz conducts a warm biographical exploration of Sadie Lincoln's childhood in a 1960s women's commune in Taos and Eugene. Lincoln reflects openly on feeling like an odd kid and her poor academic record without any friction.7:07–10:34 · Guest teaching 1/10 24 Hour Fitness and Meeting Chris Raz guides the narrative through Lincoln's career at 24 Hour Fitness and meeting her husband Chris. The tone is entirely collaborative and conversational as Lincoln describes her early corporate fitness background.10:35–16:10 · Guest teaching 2/10 The Crisis of Purpose and the Spreadsheet Plan Lincoln details her personal disillusionment with traditional fitness culture and calories-in-calories-out metrics, contrasting it with the intuitive health sparked during pregnancy. Raz facilitates her story about Chris's plan to sell everything and drop out.16:10–21:56 · Guest teaching 2/10 Launching Barre3 in Portland Raz asks about positioning barre in Portland and gently admits confusion over what barre actually was at the time. Lincoln clarifies how she differentiated Barre3 from dogmatic methods by empowering clients to adapt movements.22:12–27:22 · Guest teaching 1/10 Physical Toll and Franchising Barre3 Lincoln recounts physical burnout from teaching 19 classes a week and pivoting quickly to an owner-operated franchise model without venture capital. Raz asks clarifying business questions on margins and early overseas expansion.27:22–36:29 · Guest teaching 3/10 Resisting the Guru Persona and Pausing Growth Raz pushes back using Five Guys founder Jerry Murrell's deep skepticism of franchising to ask whether Lincoln feared losing quality control. Lincoln firmly rejects the comparison, arguing her product is human empowerment rather than a burger, and explains why she rejected the celebrity guru model.36:29–42:25 · Guest teaching 2/10 Sustainable Business, Partnership, and Miguel McKelvey Raz introduces Angie's List and sustainable business models to discuss prioritizing endurance over aggressive scaling. Lincoln connects business sustainability directly to long-term physical wellness and reflects on her sibling connection with WeWork co-founder Miguel McKelvey.42:34–46:35 · Guest teaching 0/10 How You Built That: Alexander Harik and Zesty Z Raz narrates a post-interview feature segment profiling Alexander Harik and his Lebanese za'atar spread company Zesty Z. The dynamic is purely storytelling and promotional.3:30–7:05 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Sadie Lincoln's Counterculture Childhood Guy Raz conducts a warm biographical exploration of Sadie Lincoln's childhood in a 1960s women's commune in Taos and Eugene. Lincoln reflects openly on feeling like an odd kid and her poor academic record without any friction.7:07–10:34 · Guest disagreement 0/10 24 Hour Fitness and Meeting Chris Raz guides the narrative through Lincoln's career at 24 Hour Fitness and meeting her husband Chris. The tone is entirely collaborative and conversational as Lincoln describes her early corporate fitness background.10:35–16:10 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Crisis of Purpose and the Spreadsheet Plan Lincoln details her personal disillusionment with traditional fitness culture and calories-in-calories-out metrics, contrasting it with the intuitive health sparked during pregnancy. Raz facilitates her story about Chris's plan to sell everything and drop out.16:10–21:56 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Launching Barre3 in Portland Raz asks about positioning barre in Portland and gently admits confusion over what barre actually was at the time. Lincoln clarifies how she differentiated Barre3 from dogmatic methods by empowering clients to adapt movements.22:12–27:22 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Physical Toll and Franchising Barre3 Lincoln recounts physical burnout from teaching 19 classes a week and pivoting quickly to an owner-operated franchise model without venture capital. Raz asks clarifying business questions on margins and early overseas expansion.27:22–36:29 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Resisting the Guru Persona and Pausing Growth Raz pushes back using Five Guys founder Jerry Murrell's deep skepticism of franchising to ask whether Lincoln feared losing quality control. Lincoln firmly rejects the comparison, arguing her product is human empowerment rather than a burger, and explains why she rejected the celebrity guru model.36:29–42:25 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Sustainable Business, Partnership, and Miguel McKelvey Raz introduces Angie's List and sustainable business models to discuss prioritizing endurance over aggressive scaling. Lincoln connects business sustainability directly to long-term physical wellness and reflects on her sibling connection with WeWork co-founder Miguel McKelvey.42:34–46:35 · Guest disagreement 0/10 How You Built That: Alexander Harik and Zesty Z Raz narrates a post-interview feature segment profiling Alexander Harik and his Lebanese za'atar spread company Zesty Z. The dynamic is purely storytelling and promotional.3:30–7:05 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Sadie Lincoln's Counterculture Childhood Guy Raz conducts a warm biographical exploration of Sadie Lincoln's childhood in a 1960s women's commune in Taos and Eugene. Lincoln reflects openly on feeling like an odd kid and her poor academic record without any friction.7:07–10:34 · Guy pushing back 0/10 24 Hour Fitness and Meeting Chris Raz guides the narrative through Lincoln's career at 24 Hour Fitness and meeting her husband Chris. The tone is entirely collaborative and conversational as Lincoln describes her early corporate fitness background.10:35–16:10 · Guy pushing back 0/10 The Crisis of Purpose and the Spreadsheet Plan Lincoln details her personal disillusionment with traditional fitness culture and calories-in-calories-out metrics, contrasting it with the intuitive health sparked during pregnancy. Raz facilitates her story about Chris's plan to sell everything and drop out.16:10–21:56 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Launching Barre3 in Portland Raz asks about positioning barre in Portland and gently admits confusion over what barre actually was at the time. Lincoln clarifies how she differentiated Barre3 from dogmatic methods by empowering clients to adapt movements.22:12–27:22 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Physical Toll and Franchising Barre3 Lincoln recounts physical burnout from teaching 19 classes a week and pivoting quickly to an owner-operated franchise model without venture capital. Raz asks clarifying business questions on margins and early overseas expansion.27:22–36:29 · Guy pushing back 3/10 Resisting the Guru Persona and Pausing Growth Raz pushes back using Five Guys founder Jerry Murrell's deep skepticism of franchising to ask whether Lincoln feared losing quality control. Lincoln firmly rejects the comparison, arguing her product is human empowerment rather than a burger, and explains why she rejected the celebrity guru model.36:29–42:25 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Sustainable Business, Partnership, and Miguel McKelvey Raz introduces Angie's List and sustainable business models to discuss prioritizing endurance over aggressive scaling. Lincoln connects business sustainability directly to long-term physical wellness and reflects on her sibling connection with WeWork co-founder Miguel McKelvey.42:34–46:35 · Guy pushing back 0/10 How You Built That: Alexander Harik and Zesty Z Raz narrates a post-interview feature segment profiling Alexander Harik and his Lebanese za'atar spread company Zesty Z. The dynamic is purely storytelling and promotional.

speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Guy 79.2% · guest 20.8%0:00 · Guy 79.2% · guest 20.8%3:00 · Guy 35% · guest 65%3:00 · Guy 35% · guest 65%6:00 · Guy 22.1% · guest 77.9%6:00 · Guy 22.1% · guest 77.9%9:00 · Guy 14.6% · guest 85.4%9:00 · Guy 14.6% · guest 85.4%12:00 · Guy 2.5% · guest 97.5%12:00 · Guy 2.5% · guest 97.5%15:00 · Guy 15.7% · guest 84.3%15:00 · Guy 15.7% · guest 84.3%18:00 · Guy 35.8% · guest 64.2%18:00 · Guy 35.8% · guest 64.2%21:00 · Guy 42.2% · guest 57.8%21:00 · Guy 42.2% · guest 57.8%24:00 · Guy 19.7% · guest 80.3%24:00 · Guy 19.7% · guest 80.3%27:00 · Guy 32.1% · guest 67.9%27:00 · Guy 32.1% · guest 67.9%30:00 · Guy 23.2% · guest 76.8%30:00 · Guy 23.2% · guest 76.8%33:00 · Guy 20.4% · guest 79.6%33:00 · Guy 20.4% · guest 79.6%36:00 · Guy 33.9% · guest 66.1%36:00 · Guy 33.9% · guest 66.1%39:00 · Guy 34.2% · guest 65.8%39:00 · Guy 34.2% · guest 65.8%42:00 · Guy 61.6% · guest 38.4%42:00 · Guy 61.6% · guest 38.4%45:00 · Guy 70.3% · guest 29.7%45:00 · Guy 70.3% · guest 29.7%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 32:54 Rejecting the bikini body fitness trope

Lincoln forcefully critiques industry producers who pressured her to push aesthetic bikini-body marketing, explaining how her community called her out and led her to reject mainstream fitness commercialism.

 Hardest push from Guy ▶ 27:25 Questioning franchise quality control via Five Guys

Raz directly challenges Lincoln by citing Jerry Murrell's fierce opposition to franchising over quality concerns, questioning how she could comfortably surrender control of her brand.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 18:31 Reframing instruction as self-guided empowerment

Lincoln reframes Raz's premise about strict fitness methodologies by outlining how Barre3 explicitly instructs participants to listen to their own bodies rather than obey the instructor.

 Guy holds their own ▶ 36:49 Raz contextualizes non-growth business models

Raz draws from prior interviews like Angie's List to demonstrate how established companies prioritize sustainable employment and break-even operations over raw venture scale.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicGuy as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementGuy pushing backWhy
Sadie Lincoln's Counterculture Childhood 1100 Guy Raz conducts a warm biographical exploration of Sadie Lincoln's childhood in a 1960s women's commune in Taos and Eugene. Lincoln reflects openly on feeling like an odd kid and her poor academic record without any friction.
24 Hour Fitness and Meeting Chris 2100 Raz guides the narrative through Lincoln's career at 24 Hour Fitness and meeting her husband Chris. The tone is entirely collaborative and conversational as Lincoln describes her early corporate fitness background.
The Crisis of Purpose and the Spreadsheet Plan 1210 Lincoln details her personal disillusionment with traditional fitness culture and calories-in-calories-out metrics, contrasting it with the intuitive health sparked during pregnancy. Raz facilitates her story about Chris's plan to sell everything and drop out.
Launching Barre3 in Portland 2211 Raz asks about positioning barre in Portland and gently admits confusion over what barre actually was at the time. Lincoln clarifies how she differentiated Barre3 from dogmatic methods by empowering clients to adapt movements.
Physical Toll and Franchising Barre3 2100 Lincoln recounts physical burnout from teaching 19 classes a week and pivoting quickly to an owner-operated franchise model without venture capital. Raz asks clarifying business questions on margins and early overseas expansion.
Resisting the Guru Persona and Pausing Growth 4323 Raz pushes back using Five Guys founder Jerry Murrell's deep skepticism of franchising to ask whether Lincoln feared losing quality control. Lincoln firmly rejects the comparison, arguing her product is human empowerment rather than a burger, and explains why she rejected the celebrity guru model.
Sustainable Business, Partnership, and Miguel McKelvey 3201 Raz introduces Angie's List and sustainable business models to discuss prioritizing endurance over aggressive scaling. Lincoln connects business sustainability directly to long-term physical wellness and reflects on her sibling connection with WeWork co-founder Miguel McKelvey.
How You Built That: Alexander Harik and Zesty Z 1000 Raz narrates a post-interview feature segment profiling Alexander Harik and his Lebanese za'atar spread company Zesty Z. The dynamic is purely storytelling and promotional.

Statements from this episode (11)

Assertion Supported
Lincoln's mother and friends founded the Eugene Weekly newspaper
“They created a newspaper called What's Happening and then changed it in later years to Eugene Weekly, which is still the weekly publication in Eugene.”
Sadie Lincoln Nov 5, 2018 ▶ 5:32
Opinion
The booming fitness industry is failing the vast majority of people
“Even though the fitness industry is booming, the vast majority of us, it's not working. I mean, that's the news story on the news every day. It's like obesity is on the rise. People are more stressed out than they ever have been.”
Sadie Lincoln Nov 5, 2018 ▶ 12:36
Assertion Supported
Lincoln sold her house and invested life savings to found Barre3
“So that idea morphed into, let's sell the house, and let's put every single penny into a dream job, That might fail, but we don't care. Let's just try to build a life for ourselves that will feel like dropping out, that will feel free. And that was the spark t…”
Sadie Lincoln Nov 5, 2018 ▶ 15:44
Disclosure
Mark Mastrov is Barre3's only outside investor
“So our only investor to this day is Mark Mastroff.”
Sadie Lincoln Nov 5, 2018 ▶ 16:48
Disclosure
Mark Mastrov invested under $200,000 to help launch Barre3
“So he gave us a small investment. I want to say like under 200,000 and then our house, which so we probably had maybe three or 400,000 and that was with a cushion, a little cushion, life savings.”
Sadie Lincoln Nov 5, 2018 ▶ 16:54
Disclosure
Barre3 chose a franchise model to avoid raising institutional capital
“We didn't want to be beholden to institutional money. Instead, I was really excited about, I still am excited about the idea of being beholden into other people just like me, who had a dream and wanted to open their own business and have their own skin in the …”
Sadie Lincoln Nov 5, 2018 ▶ 25:45
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Most Barre3 franchisees are clients running owner-operated studios
“Most of our franchise partners are Were, or are clients. So they came to bar three, loved bar three, knew bar three, were owner operated. So unlike some franchises, our franchise is owner operated. So if you're going to franchise with us, you're really going t…”
Sadie Lincoln Nov 5, 2018 ▶ 27:02
Assertion Supported
Barre3 operates six corporate locations and 124 franchises
“We own six locations, and then we have a 124 franchise.”
Sadie Lincoln Nov 5, 2018 ▶ 30:55
Disclosure
Barre3 intentionally paused franchising and stopped chasing growth
“In terms of growing bigger, I'm actually not focused on growing bigger anymore with the company. We've paused franchising for now.”
Sadie Lincoln Nov 5, 2018 ▶ 34:36
Assertion Contradicted
Competitor Pure Barre was acquired for $121 million
“Pure Bar was sold for a hundred and twenty-one million dollars.”
Sadie Lincoln Nov 5, 2018 ▶ 35:29
Assertion Supported
WeWork co-founder Miguel McKelvey is Sadie Lincoln's brother
“He's Miguel McKelvey, founder of the multi-billion dollar company WeWork. Miguel also grew up in that all women's collective, and like his sister Sadie, he also rebelled against it by going into business.”
Guy Raz Nov 5, 2018 ▶ 41:45
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