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May 9, 2020 · 21m · how-i-built-this

How I Built Resilience: Live with Stewart Butterfield and Steve Holmes

Stewart Butterfield · 7m spoken Guy Raz · 7m spoken Steve Holmes · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this Resilience Edition of How I Built This, host Guy Raz interviews Stewart Butterfield of Slack and Steve Holmes of Springfree Trampoline to examine how their businesses managed unprecedented surges in consumer demand, pivoted workforce operations, and cultivated resilience during the COVID-19 pandemic.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 37.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Guy as informed peer 4.0 Guest teaching 2.7 Guest disagreement 0.2 Guy pushing back 0.0
05100:0010:0020:000:00–4:11 · Guy as informed peer 4/10 NPR Listener Survey Announcement Guy Raz demonstrates strong background knowledge regarding Slack's early pandemic shutdown timeline and specific employee CDC contact notifications. Stewart Butterfield elaborates cooperatively on the civic responsibility and logistics behind closing their physical offices.4:12–6:25 · Guy as informed peer 2/10 Managing Surge Demand and Remote Company Morale Raz contrasts Slack's surge with struggling consumer sectors. Butterfield details the internal metrics, morale boost, and communication discipline required during rapid remote scaling.6:25–10:52 · Guy as informed peer 5/10 Fostering Collaboration in a Distributed Workplace Raz introduces an analytical theory regarding how remote work could reverse coastal brain drain and stimulate regional business creation. Butterfield fully endorses the concept and builds on the downstream economic possibilities.10:52–16:27 · Guy as informed peer 4/10 Executive Leadership and Navigating Organizational Uncertainty Raz transitions from Butterfield's philosophy on uncertainty to Steve Holmes's 300% demand surge. Holmes details an aggressive strategy of dropping slow-paying retailers to preserve cash and avoid bad debt.16:27–19:13 · Guy as informed peer 4/10 Empowering Staff and Early Distribution Strategies Raz references Holmes's emotional storytelling and history with Costco. Holmes educates listeners on leadership frameworks using Daniel Pink's motivational pillars to redeploy retail staff into customer support.19:13–20:57 · Guy as informed peer 5/10 Overcoming Business Collapse and Cultivating Resilience Raz offers a thoughtful thesis about resilience and why core entrepreneurial abilities survive business collapse. Holmes responds with an emotional account of his father's advice during a 1995 business failure.0:00–4:11 · Guest teaching 2/10 NPR Listener Survey Announcement Guy Raz demonstrates strong background knowledge regarding Slack's early pandemic shutdown timeline and specific employee CDC contact notifications. Stewart Butterfield elaborates cooperatively on the civic responsibility and logistics behind closing their physical offices.4:12–6:25 · Guest teaching 3/10 Managing Surge Demand and Remote Company Morale Raz contrasts Slack's surge with struggling consumer sectors. Butterfield details the internal metrics, morale boost, and communication discipline required during rapid remote scaling.6:25–10:52 · Guest teaching 2/10 Fostering Collaboration in a Distributed Workplace Raz introduces an analytical theory regarding how remote work could reverse coastal brain drain and stimulate regional business creation. Butterfield fully endorses the concept and builds on the downstream economic possibilities.10:52–16:27 · Guest teaching 4/10 Executive Leadership and Navigating Organizational Uncertainty Raz transitions from Butterfield's philosophy on uncertainty to Steve Holmes's 300% demand surge. Holmes details an aggressive strategy of dropping slow-paying retailers to preserve cash and avoid bad debt.16:27–19:13 · Guest teaching 4/10 Empowering Staff and Early Distribution Strategies Raz references Holmes's emotional storytelling and history with Costco. Holmes educates listeners on leadership frameworks using Daniel Pink's motivational pillars to redeploy retail staff into customer support.19:13–20:57 · Guest teaching 1/10 Overcoming Business Collapse and Cultivating Resilience Raz offers a thoughtful thesis about resilience and why core entrepreneurial abilities survive business collapse. Holmes responds with an emotional account of his father's advice during a 1995 business failure.0:00–4:11 · Guest disagreement 0/10 NPR Listener Survey Announcement Guy Raz demonstrates strong background knowledge regarding Slack's early pandemic shutdown timeline and specific employee CDC contact notifications. Stewart Butterfield elaborates cooperatively on the civic responsibility and logistics behind closing their physical offices.4:12–6:25 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Managing Surge Demand and Remote Company Morale Raz contrasts Slack's surge with struggling consumer sectors. Butterfield details the internal metrics, morale boost, and communication discipline required during rapid remote scaling.6:25–10:52 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Fostering Collaboration in a Distributed Workplace Raz introduces an analytical theory regarding how remote work could reverse coastal brain drain and stimulate regional business creation. Butterfield fully endorses the concept and builds on the downstream economic possibilities.10:52–16:27 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Executive Leadership and Navigating Organizational Uncertainty Raz transitions from Butterfield's philosophy on uncertainty to Steve Holmes's 300% demand surge. Holmes details an aggressive strategy of dropping slow-paying retailers to preserve cash and avoid bad debt.16:27–19:13 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Empowering Staff and Early Distribution Strategies Raz references Holmes's emotional storytelling and history with Costco. Holmes educates listeners on leadership frameworks using Daniel Pink's motivational pillars to redeploy retail staff into customer support.19:13–20:57 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Overcoming Business Collapse and Cultivating Resilience Raz offers a thoughtful thesis about resilience and why core entrepreneurial abilities survive business collapse. Holmes responds with an emotional account of his father's advice during a 1995 business failure.0:00–4:11 · Guy pushing back 0/10 NPR Listener Survey Announcement Guy Raz demonstrates strong background knowledge regarding Slack's early pandemic shutdown timeline and specific employee CDC contact notifications. Stewart Butterfield elaborates cooperatively on the civic responsibility and logistics behind closing their physical offices.4:12–6:25 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Managing Surge Demand and Remote Company Morale Raz contrasts Slack's surge with struggling consumer sectors. Butterfield details the internal metrics, morale boost, and communication discipline required during rapid remote scaling.6:25–10:52 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Fostering Collaboration in a Distributed Workplace Raz introduces an analytical theory regarding how remote work could reverse coastal brain drain and stimulate regional business creation. Butterfield fully endorses the concept and builds on the downstream economic possibilities.10:52–16:27 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Executive Leadership and Navigating Organizational Uncertainty Raz transitions from Butterfield's philosophy on uncertainty to Steve Holmes's 300% demand surge. Holmes details an aggressive strategy of dropping slow-paying retailers to preserve cash and avoid bad debt.16:27–19:13 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Empowering Staff and Early Distribution Strategies Raz references Holmes's emotional storytelling and history with Costco. Holmes educates listeners on leadership frameworks using Daniel Pink's motivational pillars to redeploy retail staff into customer support.19:13–20:57 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Overcoming Business Collapse and Cultivating Resilience Raz offers a thoughtful thesis about resilience and why core entrepreneurial abilities survive business collapse. Holmes responds with an emotional account of his father's advice during a 1995 business failure.

speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Guy 55.3% · guest 44.7%0:00 · Guy 55.3% · guest 44.7%3:00 · Guy 21% · guest 79%3:00 · Guy 21% · guest 79%6:00 · Guy 35.6% · guest 64.4%6:00 · Guy 35.6% · guest 64.4%9:00 · Guy 23.9% · guest 76.1%9:00 · Guy 23.9% · guest 76.1%12:00 · Guy 55.8% · guest 44.2%12:00 · Guy 55.8% · guest 44.2%15:00 · Guy 16.3% · guest 83.7%15:00 · Guy 16.3% · guest 83.7%18:00 · Guy 39.7% · guest 60.3%18:00 · Guy 39.7% · guest 60.3%21:00 · Guy 100% · guest 0%21:00 · Guy 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 15:15 Holmes rejects extended retail payment terms

Holmes takes a resolute, uncompromising stance against big retailers requesting 180-day credit terms, abruptly cutting them off to preserve company cash flow.

 Hardest push from Guy ▶ 15:35 Raz reframes cash preservation as production scaling

Raz gently challenges Holmes's reasoning by proposing that cash was needed to ramp up manufacturing, prompting Holmes to clarify that avoiding bad receivables was the primary driver.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 17:10 Holmes teaches staff motivation frameworks

Holmes breaks down Daniel Pink's motivation principles (autonomy, mastery, and purpose) to instruct entrepreneurs on providing clarity and direction to their workforce during a crisis.

 Guy holds their own ▶ 19:29 Raz's thesis on indestructible entrepreneurial drive

Raz demonstrates deep domain insight from interviewing hundreds of founders, delivering a compelling synthesis on how foundational hustle and talent persist even through business collapse.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicGuy as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementGuy pushing backWhy
NPR Listener Survey Announcement 4200 Guy Raz demonstrates strong background knowledge regarding Slack's early pandemic shutdown timeline and specific employee CDC contact notifications. Stewart Butterfield elaborates cooperatively on the civic responsibility and logistics behind closing their physical offices.
Managing Surge Demand and Remote Company Morale 2300 Raz contrasts Slack's surge with struggling consumer sectors. Butterfield details the internal metrics, morale boost, and communication discipline required during rapid remote scaling.
Fostering Collaboration in a Distributed Workplace 5200 Raz introduces an analytical theory regarding how remote work could reverse coastal brain drain and stimulate regional business creation. Butterfield fully endorses the concept and builds on the downstream economic possibilities.
Executive Leadership and Navigating Organizational Uncertainty 4410 Raz transitions from Butterfield's philosophy on uncertainty to Steve Holmes's 300% demand surge. Holmes details an aggressive strategy of dropping slow-paying retailers to preserve cash and avoid bad debt.
Empowering Staff and Early Distribution Strategies 4400 Raz references Holmes's emotional storytelling and history with Costco. Holmes educates listeners on leadership frameworks using Daniel Pink's motivational pillars to redeploy retail staff into customer support.
Overcoming Business Collapse and Cultivating Resilience 5100 Raz offers a thoughtful thesis about resilience and why core entrepreneurial abilities survive business collapse. Holmes responds with an emotional account of his father's advice during a 1995 business failure.

Statements from this episode (10)

Assertion Supported
Butterfield: Slack saw massive surges across every metric during COVID onset
“In the early stages of this, yes, we saw a huge increase in the number of new teams being created, which is kind of people signing up for Slack in the first place, converting to paid status, the customers who are already paid, adding more users the people who …”
Stewart Butterfield May 9, 2020 ▶ 4:38
Insight
Butterfield: Channeling energy to help in a crisis calms personal anxiety
“In times of crisis like this, I think people have a really strong instinct to help. And if there's a place for you to put that energy it's not just productive and effective. It's also kind of spiritually calming. You're less anxious if you're, if you feel like…”
Stewart Butterfield May 9, 2020 ▶ 5:16
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Butterfield: Slack's first two remote weeks were its most productive ever.
“The first and second week after work from home order were probably the two most productive weeks in the history of the company.”
Stewart Butterfield May 9, 2020 ▶ 7:33
Insight
Butterfield: Teams Shifting from In-Person Meetings Should Over-Invest in Written Communication
“I think if you didn't have to rely on it before, if you were really reliant on in-person meetings to kind of get work done or get decisions made yeah, over invest in, in written communication and experiment with video tools to find the ones that work.”
Stewart Butterfield May 9, 2020 ▶ 7:50
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Butterfield: Slack and Many Companies Will Retain Significant Remote Workforces
“One of the big topics is, do you expect to have a significant portion of your workforce remote when this resumes? And universal, yes. So I definitely expect that for us. I expect that for many companies.”
Stewart Butterfield May 9, 2020 ▶ 8:42
Insight
Butterfield: Leaders must constantly reinforce plans because humans hate uncertainty
“People need to be reminded what's important more often. People need to be reassured. People need to be clear that they understand the plan because human beings hate Uncertainty. I mean, just historically, it's almost like it's an evolutionary instinct, and you…”
Stewart Butterfield May 9, 2020 ▶ 11:11
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Holmes: Springfree Trampoline saw a 300% demand surge during COVID lockdowns.
“300%.”
Steve Holmes May 9, 2020 ▶ 13:28
Disclosure
Holmes: Springfree dropped major retailers attempting to enforce 180-day payment terms.
“So we cut out almost all of our big retailers. We had a big retailer right at the start who sent us a notice and say, we, we're in 90 day terms with them. And they sent us a note and said, we're going to a 180 day terms. And we said, have a nice day. You're no…”
Steve Holmes May 9, 2020 ▶ 15:21
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Holmes: Springfree redeployed retail staff to field 700 to 800 calls daily
“So when our retail stores shut down, those people stepped up, they got on the phone, We were running, you know, seven, 800 calls a day, not missing one of them.”
Steve Holmes May 9, 2020 ▶ 17:03
Insight
Holmes: Employees only need clarity when they have motivation and competency
“If I can teach any entrepreneurs about their people, there's three things they want to know. They want to know what's my job. How does it impact the company? And minor, how do I get paid? Interestingly, if you go back to Dan Pink, you know, on what motivates p…”
Steve Holmes May 9, 2020 ▶ 17:37
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