StarZero All shows Try the podcast clipper →

Sep 3, 2020 · 23m · how-i-built-this

How I Built Resilience: Luke Holden and Ben Conniff of Luke's Lobster

Ben Conniff · 7m spoken Luke Holden · 7m spoken Guy Raz · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of How I Built This: Resilience Edition, Guy Raz interviews Luke's Lobster co-founders Luke Holden and Ben Conniff about navigating the COVID-19 pandemic through empathetic leadership, rapid pivots to grocery and direct-to-consumer e-commerce, and enduring support for Maine's coastal fishing communities.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 30.6% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Guy as informed peer 4.1 Guest teaching 3.7 Guest disagreement 0.3 Guy pushing back 0.9
05100:0010:0020:001:03–5:05 · Guy as informed peer 4/10 Navigating Mass Furloughs and Prioritizing Team Welfare Guy Raz sets the scene by detailing the economic shock that forced the furlough of 300 staff. Luke Holden and Ben Conniff explain the proactive decision to move hourly workers quickly to unemployment to beat processing backlogs while keeping communication personal.5:05–7:47 · Guy as informed peer 4/10 Pivoting Seafood Processing to Grocery Retail Channels Raz outlines the drop in processing plant volume due to widespread restaurant closures. Holden and Conniff explain how they rapidly shifted packing from bulk food-service packs to branded grocery items at Whole Foods to capture locked-down home cooks.7:48–11:02 · Guy as informed peer 5/10 Global Signals and International Shack Operations Raz brings up the canceled Boston Seafood Expo and overseas operations in Japan and Taiwan. Conniff shares how their team created a direct-to-consumer e-commerce portal in seven days to maintain seafood purchasing from fishermen.11:03–13:49 · Guy as informed peer 4/10 Mid-Episode Break and Upcoming Topic Preview Following the mid-roll break, Raz invokes hospitality benchmarks like Danny Meyer to ask about cross-industry ideas. Holden notes their vertical integration forced them to solve supply chain bottlenecks by selling secondary species like bluefin tuna online.13:49–16:29 · Guy as informed peer 5/10 Mitigating Seafood Gluts Through Seasonal Home Delivery Raz references a Wall Street Journal quote regarding survival over profit and asks about localized gluts. Conniff explains how partnering directly with scallopers and lobstermen enabled seasonal direct-to-consumer nationwide shipping.16:30–19:10 · Guy as informed peer 4/10 Navigating Maine Lobster MSC Sustainability Certification Raz asks about Marine Stewardship Council sustainability status, suggesting ocean temperature shifts as the cause. Conniff clarifies that federal right-whale court rulings were the true regulatory cause, educating on the nuance of Maine fisheries.19:10–22:09 · Guy as informed peer 3/10 Core Values, Flattened Hierarchies, and Crisis Leadership Raz asks about enduring leadership lessons gained from the crisis. Holden and Conniff emphasize maintaining a flat organizational structure, radical transparency with employees, and value-driven purpose.1:03–5:05 · Guest teaching 3/10 Navigating Mass Furloughs and Prioritizing Team Welfare Guy Raz sets the scene by detailing the economic shock that forced the furlough of 300 staff. Luke Holden and Ben Conniff explain the proactive decision to move hourly workers quickly to unemployment to beat processing backlogs while keeping communication personal.5:05–7:47 · Guest teaching 4/10 Pivoting Seafood Processing to Grocery Retail Channels Raz outlines the drop in processing plant volume due to widespread restaurant closures. Holden and Conniff explain how they rapidly shifted packing from bulk food-service packs to branded grocery items at Whole Foods to capture locked-down home cooks.7:48–11:02 · Guest teaching 3/10 Global Signals and International Shack Operations Raz brings up the canceled Boston Seafood Expo and overseas operations in Japan and Taiwan. Conniff shares how their team created a direct-to-consumer e-commerce portal in seven days to maintain seafood purchasing from fishermen.11:03–13:49 · Guest teaching 4/10 Mid-Episode Break and Upcoming Topic Preview Following the mid-roll break, Raz invokes hospitality benchmarks like Danny Meyer to ask about cross-industry ideas. Holden notes their vertical integration forced them to solve supply chain bottlenecks by selling secondary species like bluefin tuna online.13:49–16:29 · Guest teaching 4/10 Mitigating Seafood Gluts Through Seasonal Home Delivery Raz references a Wall Street Journal quote regarding survival over profit and asks about localized gluts. Conniff explains how partnering directly with scallopers and lobstermen enabled seasonal direct-to-consumer nationwide shipping.16:30–19:10 · Guest teaching 6/10 Navigating Maine Lobster MSC Sustainability Certification Raz asks about Marine Stewardship Council sustainability status, suggesting ocean temperature shifts as the cause. Conniff clarifies that federal right-whale court rulings were the true regulatory cause, educating on the nuance of Maine fisheries.19:10–22:09 · Guest teaching 2/10 Core Values, Flattened Hierarchies, and Crisis Leadership Raz asks about enduring leadership lessons gained from the crisis. Holden and Conniff emphasize maintaining a flat organizational structure, radical transparency with employees, and value-driven purpose.1:03–5:05 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Navigating Mass Furloughs and Prioritizing Team Welfare Guy Raz sets the scene by detailing the economic shock that forced the furlough of 300 staff. Luke Holden and Ben Conniff explain the proactive decision to move hourly workers quickly to unemployment to beat processing backlogs while keeping communication personal.5:05–7:47 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Pivoting Seafood Processing to Grocery Retail Channels Raz outlines the drop in processing plant volume due to widespread restaurant closures. Holden and Conniff explain how they rapidly shifted packing from bulk food-service packs to branded grocery items at Whole Foods to capture locked-down home cooks.7:48–11:02 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Global Signals and International Shack Operations Raz brings up the canceled Boston Seafood Expo and overseas operations in Japan and Taiwan. Conniff shares how their team created a direct-to-consumer e-commerce portal in seven days to maintain seafood purchasing from fishermen.11:03–13:49 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Mid-Episode Break and Upcoming Topic Preview Following the mid-roll break, Raz invokes hospitality benchmarks like Danny Meyer to ask about cross-industry ideas. Holden notes their vertical integration forced them to solve supply chain bottlenecks by selling secondary species like bluefin tuna online.13:49–16:29 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Mitigating Seafood Gluts Through Seasonal Home Delivery Raz references a Wall Street Journal quote regarding survival over profit and asks about localized gluts. Conniff explains how partnering directly with scallopers and lobstermen enabled seasonal direct-to-consumer nationwide shipping.16:30–19:10 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Navigating Maine Lobster MSC Sustainability Certification Raz asks about Marine Stewardship Council sustainability status, suggesting ocean temperature shifts as the cause. Conniff clarifies that federal right-whale court rulings were the true regulatory cause, educating on the nuance of Maine fisheries.19:10–22:09 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Core Values, Flattened Hierarchies, and Crisis Leadership Raz asks about enduring leadership lessons gained from the crisis. Holden and Conniff emphasize maintaining a flat organizational structure, radical transparency with employees, and value-driven purpose.1:03–5:05 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Navigating Mass Furloughs and Prioritizing Team Welfare Guy Raz sets the scene by detailing the economic shock that forced the furlough of 300 staff. Luke Holden and Ben Conniff explain the proactive decision to move hourly workers quickly to unemployment to beat processing backlogs while keeping communication personal.5:05–7:47 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Pivoting Seafood Processing to Grocery Retail Channels Raz outlines the drop in processing plant volume due to widespread restaurant closures. Holden and Conniff explain how they rapidly shifted packing from bulk food-service packs to branded grocery items at Whole Foods to capture locked-down home cooks.7:48–11:02 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Global Signals and International Shack Operations Raz brings up the canceled Boston Seafood Expo and overseas operations in Japan and Taiwan. Conniff shares how their team created a direct-to-consumer e-commerce portal in seven days to maintain seafood purchasing from fishermen.11:03–13:49 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Mid-Episode Break and Upcoming Topic Preview Following the mid-roll break, Raz invokes hospitality benchmarks like Danny Meyer to ask about cross-industry ideas. Holden notes their vertical integration forced them to solve supply chain bottlenecks by selling secondary species like bluefin tuna online.13:49–16:29 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Mitigating Seafood Gluts Through Seasonal Home Delivery Raz references a Wall Street Journal quote regarding survival over profit and asks about localized gluts. Conniff explains how partnering directly with scallopers and lobstermen enabled seasonal direct-to-consumer nationwide shipping.16:30–19:10 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Navigating Maine Lobster MSC Sustainability Certification Raz asks about Marine Stewardship Council sustainability status, suggesting ocean temperature shifts as the cause. Conniff clarifies that federal right-whale court rulings were the true regulatory cause, educating on the nuance of Maine fisheries.19:10–22:09 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Core Values, Flattened Hierarchies, and Crisis Leadership Raz asks about enduring leadership lessons gained from the crisis. Holden and Conniff emphasize maintaining a flat organizational structure, radical transparency with employees, and value-driven purpose.

speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Guy 46.9% · guest 53.1%0:00 · Guy 46.9% · guest 53.1%3:00 · Guy 19.3% · guest 80.7%3:00 · Guy 19.3% · guest 80.7%6:00 · Guy 29.3% · guest 70.7%6:00 · Guy 29.3% · guest 70.7%9:00 · Guy 52.3% · guest 47.7%9:00 · Guy 52.3% · guest 47.7%12:00 · Guy 25.6% · guest 74.4%12:00 · Guy 25.6% · guest 74.4%15:00 · Guy 13.3% · guest 86.7%15:00 · Guy 13.3% · guest 86.7%18:00 · Guy 18.3% · guest 81.7%18:00 · Guy 18.3% · guest 81.7%21:00 · Guy 44.5% · guest 55.5%21:00 · Guy 44.5% · guest 55.5%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 16:54 Pushing back on the premise of sustainability loss

Ben Conniff firmly reframes Raz's premise, clarifying that the MSC suspension stems from broader federal court actions regarding right whales rather than Maine water temperature migrations.

 Hardest push from Guy ▶ 14:25 Citing Wall Street Journal quote on survival

Guy Raz challenges the founders on market dynamics by quoting Ben's own stark admission to the WSJ that there was 'no profit only survival' during the pandemic onset.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 16:54 Detailing the regulatory mechanics of lobster certification

Ben Conniff provides deep regulatory and ecological context, explaining how federal whale migration rulings unfairly created collateral damage for local Maine lobster fisheries.

 Guy holds their own ▶ 5:05 Framing the processing bottleneck and retail math

Guy Raz demonstrates strong operational knowledge by breaking down processing plant capacities, open shack ratios, and the direct impact on purchasing volume.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicGuy as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementGuy pushing backWhy
Navigating Mass Furloughs and Prioritizing Team Welfare 4301 Guy Raz sets the scene by detailing the economic shock that forced the furlough of 300 staff. Luke Holden and Ben Conniff explain the proactive decision to move hourly workers quickly to unemployment to beat processing backlogs while keeping communication personal.
Pivoting Seafood Processing to Grocery Retail Channels 4401 Raz outlines the drop in processing plant volume due to widespread restaurant closures. Holden and Conniff explain how they rapidly shifted packing from bulk food-service packs to branded grocery items at Whole Foods to capture locked-down home cooks.
Global Signals and International Shack Operations 5301 Raz brings up the canceled Boston Seafood Expo and overseas operations in Japan and Taiwan. Conniff shares how their team created a direct-to-consumer e-commerce portal in seven days to maintain seafood purchasing from fishermen.
Mid-Episode Break and Upcoming Topic Preview 4401 Following the mid-roll break, Raz invokes hospitality benchmarks like Danny Meyer to ask about cross-industry ideas. Holden notes their vertical integration forced them to solve supply chain bottlenecks by selling secondary species like bluefin tuna online.
Mitigating Seafood Gluts Through Seasonal Home Delivery 5401 Raz references a Wall Street Journal quote regarding survival over profit and asks about localized gluts. Conniff explains how partnering directly with scallopers and lobstermen enabled seasonal direct-to-consumer nationwide shipping.
Navigating Maine Lobster MSC Sustainability Certification 4621 Raz asks about Marine Stewardship Council sustainability status, suggesting ocean temperature shifts as the cause. Conniff clarifies that federal right-whale court rulings were the true regulatory cause, educating on the nuance of Maine fisheries.
Core Values, Flattened Hierarchies, and Crisis Leadership 3200 Raz asks about enduring leadership lessons gained from the crisis. Holden and Conniff emphasize maintaining a flat organizational structure, radical transparency with employees, and value-driven purpose.

Statements from this episode (9)

Assertion Supported
Luke's Lobster cut operations to one shack before reopening 12 locations
“We ended up shutting everything down besides one shack, and now we've got Sifu Company back up and going. We've got 12 shacks up and going.”
Luke Holden Sep 3, 2020 ▶ 2:46
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Pandemic hit Luke's Lobster in March when annual cash reserves were lowest
“We were a very seasonal business to begin with. Like we make most of our hay, Memorial Day to Labor Day. And this couldn't have happened at a worse time for a business like us, because we're kind of at the end of our rope to begin with. We're just at the end o…”
Luke Holden Sep 3, 2020 ▶ 3:27
Assertion Partly supported
Luke Holden: 70% of US seafood is consumed in restaurants
“So in the U.S., about 70% of the seafood is consumed within restaurants, and so when you completely take that out of the supply chain, you're left with a complete imbalance, and we knew that heading into this.”
Luke Holden Sep 3, 2020 ▶ 5:35
Disclosure
Whole Foods approached Luke's Lobster to absorb surplus restaurant inventory
“They were actually eager to help us move more seafood, and they came to us and asked how they could actually buy more lobster, and how they could, you know, put inventory we would have sent to our restaurants into their seafood case, or into an innovative prod…”
Ben Conniff Sep 3, 2020 ▶ 7:23
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Luke Holden predicts Luke's Lobster grocery volume will top 1M units
“Our grocery branded business in 2009, we probably did around 200,000 units between two different SKUs will be over a million units this year.”
Luke Holden Sep 3, 2020 ▶ 12:47
Assertion Supported
Luke Holden: Maine faced a huge glut of oysters and bluefin tuna
“It's not what it was last year, but on the flip side, yes, there's a huge glut here in the state of Maine for things like Oysters, which are typically consumed in, in restaurants and bluefin tuna, which is almost exclusively served in, in restaurants.”
Luke Holden Sep 3, 2020 ▶ 14:02
Disclosure
Luke's Lobster started selling scallops to support their lobster fishermen
“I mean, in, in some ways, like for the example of this spring, we started selling Debo's scallops. We'd never sold them before, but the guys that catch our lobster at that time of year, Also go out and catch scallops, and they didn't have a home for a lot of t…”
Ben Conniff Sep 3, 2020 ▶ 14:50
Assertion Contradicted
Ben Conniff: Right whale entanglements are not happening in Maine waters
“All the data and evidence shows that any issues with right whales are not, really not happening in Maine waters based on their migratory patterns and where their food is”
Ben Conniff Sep 3, 2020 ▶ 17:04
Opinion
Ben Conniff: Seafood certification bodies lack specificity when evaluating individual fisheries
“A lot of these certification bodies, they just aren't specific enough in looking at what fishery you're talking about and what issues are or aren't posed by that fishery”
Ben Conniff Sep 3, 2020 ▶ 17:32
Made with StarZero

Turn any episode into a week of clips.

This entire site, over 800 episodes transcribed, diarized, checked and made playable, runs on the StarZero media pipeline. Drop in your own episode and the podcast clipper finds the moments worth sharing, cuts them, captions them, and reframes them for every feed.

Try the podcast clipper Learn more