Dec 7, 2020 · 1h 14m · how-i-built-this
Kodiak Cakes: Joel Clark
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
This episode of How I Built This chronicles how Joel Clark persevered through fifteen years of near-bankruptcy, operational blunders, and retail hustle to transform his mother's whole-wheat pancake recipe into Kodiak Cakes, a $200-million industry leader. Host Guy Raz explores Clark's journey of resilience, bold sales outreach, and opportunistic product innovations that disrupted the heritage breakfast aisle.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 32.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Guy as informed peer 2.6 Guest teaching 1.7 Guest disagreement 0.2 Guy pushing back 1.3
speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 1:11:33 Joel reframes luck vs skill debate
Joel playfully counters Guy's forced choice between hard work and luck by arguing that while luck does happen, it only benefits founders actively working out on the water.
Hardest push from Guy ▶ 46:01 Guy challenges leaving steady CEO roleGuy firmly presses Joel on the questionable rationality of abandoning a secure executive income to jump back into a cash-strapped pancake business while deep in debt.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 1:08:29 Joel clarifies 2020 pandemic pancake demandWhen Guy assumes retail foot-traffic declines damaged Kodiak during 2020, Joel corrects him by explaining that staying home created an unprecedented boom in family breakfast cooking.
Guy holds their own ▶ 37:19 Guy compares CPG sample pitchesGuy draws upon his breadth of founder interviews, contrasting ready-to-eat brands like Tate's and Boom Chicka Pop with the steep logistical barrier of getting grocery buyers to cook raw batter.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Guy as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Guy pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| The Red Wagon Origins: Selling Mom's Recipe | 2 | 1 | 0 | 1 | Guy humorously connects to Joel's upbringing eating strictly health food and jokes about Joel's mother Penny not branding the mix as Penny Cakes. Joel warmly explains the neighborhood red-wagon sales origin in 1982. | |
| Mission in Australia: Mastering Rejection | 3 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Guy introduces his thesis that LDS missions provide premier sales training for future founders due to relentless door-to-door rejection. Joel agrees and describes how brother John started the company with $1,400 from a flipped truck. | |
| Road Trips and Selling to Ski Town Gift Shops | 3 | 2 | 1 | 3 | Guy pushes on the commercial viability of gift shops, pointing out that tourists buy breath mints rather than heavy pancake mix. Joel acknowledges the low volume but notes that tourist discovery seeded devoted customer mail-in orders. | |
| John's Breakdown and Joel Taking Over for One Dollar | 2 | 2 | 0 | 1 | Joel recounts his brother John's emotional breakdown after exhausting savings, leading to John selling the business to Joel for one dollar. Guy asks about initial revenues and the formal equity split. | |
| Consulting, Car Flipping, and Local Press Breakout | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Joel describes balancing a 30-hour consulting job and car flipping while pitching local press without knowing what a press release was. The resulting Deseret News feature instantly cleaned out Dan's grocery store shelves. | |
| The First Angel Investment from Gary Beaner | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Guy prompts Joel on their first outside angel capital. Joel describes the terror and responsibility of taking an initial $13,000 check from family friend Gary Beaner. | |
| Cold Calling Safeway and Going Full-Time | 4 | 2 | 0 | 2 | Guy cites previous food brand founders to contrast ready-to-eat sample pitches against raw pancake mixes requiring cooking. Joel explains how cold-calling Safeway's headquarters unexpectedly landed a 1,200-store distribution rollout. | |
| The Ben's Cookies Side Hustle Stumble | 2 | 1 | 0 | 1 | Joel explains his side venture opening UK-based Ben's Cookies franchises in Utah, which lost money and stretched him too thin. Guy checks the menu online while Joel reflects on overcommitting. | |
| 2008 Crisis, Brand Licensing, and Home Healthcare Detour | 2 | 2 | 0 | 1 | Joel outlines the 2007-2008 squeeze from rising commodity costs and an ill-timed real estate purchase, forcing him to license Kodiak and become CEO of a home healthcare agency. | |
| Reclaiming the Brand and Dad's $50,000 Lifeline | 3 | 2 | 0 | 3 | Guy presses Joel on the extreme financial risk of leaving a stable CEO job to reclaim mismanaged Kodiak. Joel recounts an accidental $2 promotional discount that created a catastrophic $50,000 bill, bailed out by his father's home equity line. | |
| Hiring Cameron Smith and Landing Target | 3 | 2 | 0 | 2 | Joel details hiring recent graduate Cameron Smith, who secured an in-person Target pitch and expanded into a nationwide purchase order of $260,000, once again financed by Joel's father. | |
| Pitching on Shark Tank and Walking Away | 3 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Joel recounts pitching on Shark Tank, rejecting aggressive equity demands from Kevin O'Leary and Robert Herjavec, and walking away to benefit from post-show Target sales spikes. | |
| Launching Power Cakes and Riding the Protein Boom | 3 | 2 | 0 | 1 | Joel describes formulating Power Cakes at home by adding protein powder to batter, catching the emerging high-protein dietary wave before institutional private equity entered in 2016. | |
| Reaching $200 Million and Reflecting on Success | 3 | 2 | 1 | 2 | Guy questions Joel on whether passing $200 million in revenue was driven by skill or luck. Joel challenges the binary distinction by using the analogy that fish do jump into boats, but only if you are out fishing. |
Statements from this episode (20)
Joel Clark sold his mother's pancake mix door-to-door at age eight
“They totally did. I remember I knocked on it, so we lived in a cul-de-sac, and I went around to all the neighbors in the cul-de-sac, And I think everybody bought one, you know, I mean, I'm this eight year old kid. And I was actually pretty outgoing as a kid, l…”
Guy Raz: Mormon missions prepare founders for relentless entrepreneurial rejection
“Young Mormons who go on missions, I think, are very well prepared to become entrepreneurs, because you're knocking on a thousand doors a week, and 900 of them are just, like, slamming in your face, and you still have to be polite, right?”
John Clark launched Kodiak Cakes using $1,400 earned from flipping a truck
“John drove it around for a while, and then he sold it, and he made 1400 bucks. And so he was kind of like, look, I think I can actually start my business on this.”
Founders launched Kodiak Cakes packing 600 pounds of mix into a sedan
“On December first, 1995, John and I took a trip to Jackson, Wyoming. We left at, like, four a.m., four or five a.m., We got in his car, and I remember he had this Mazda six to six, and it would hold exactly 19 cases of Kodiak cakes. And the cases were big. I m…”
Joel Clark: Kodiak Cakes generated $29,000 in total revenue in 1997
“What I do remember is so, you know, when I took it over later in two, in 1997, the revenue that year was 29,000 dollars total revenue.”
Joel Clark: John Clark sold Kodiak Cakes to him for one dollar
“What we did to actually formalize it, we actually made a little contract and John literally sold me the business for a dollar.”
Joel Clark incorporated Kodiak Cakes in 1999, returning 50% equity to John
“It was in not until about 1999 that I actually incorporated the business. And then I went back to John and I gave him half the shares back.”
An early investor bought 18% of Kodiak Cakes for $35,000
“And so Gary, John and I, we all started talking and Gary said, all right, guys, I'll put 35,000 bucks in for, I can't remember, it was like 18% of the business or something like that. He's like, look, let's start with 13,000. And then when you need more, you k…”
Safeway Picked Up Kodiak Cakes Across 1,200 Stores in 2004
“So in 2004, I had been working on sales, you know, kind of part time and I'd been working with Safeway. And I sent some samples out to this buyer. Her name was Donna Sullivan. She called me and she's like, Hey Joel, we're going to bring your pancake mix in to …”
Safeway's Initial 1,200-Store Order for Kodiak Was ~$20K-$25K
“It was probably in the realm of 20, 25,000 bucks. You know, something like that.”
Joel Clark temporarily left Kodiak Cakes in 2008, licensing the brand
“And in early 2008, I took a job and left Kodiak cakes and I licensed the brand over to Another small business to kind of manage for me and to pay me a royalty.”
Clark: Kodiak Cakes lost around 25% of revenue under licensing partner
“I think we lost about 25% of the revenue.”
Clark: Kodiak Cakes received a $260,000 initial purchase order from Target
“So we got this PO. It was 260,000 dollar PO.”
Joel Clark's father borrowed $260,000 against his home to fund Target inventory
“So he went down to the bank. He got a check on his home equity line. So he had to borrow the money and he showed back up to my office with a check for 260,000 bucks.”
Clark: Kodiak Cakes sought $500,000 for 10% equity on Shark Tank
“So we went on the show trying to get, we were pitching for 500,000 dollars for 10% of the business.”
Clark: Kevin O'Leary offered $500,000 for 50% of Kodiak Cakes
“So the first offer was Kevin. So Kevin says, I'll give you that 500 grand, but I want half the business.”
Kodiak Cakes' Shark Tank appearance wiped out Target inventory for months
“So like people, particularly at Target, and I think it's because Target was mentioned on the show, and so people went to Target, and they just cleared the shelves, and so we struggled for a couple months just to keep up with it.”
Clark: Clark family and Cameron Smith hold majority ownership in Kodiak Cakes
“If, well, yeah, if you include myself, my dad, my brother, and Cameron, then we are a majority.”