Dec 10, 2020 · 24m · how-i-built-this
How I Built Resilience: Emily Powell of Powell's Books
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this resilience-focused episode of NPR's How I Built This, host Guy Raz interviews Emily Powell, president of Powell's Books, about guiding Portland's iconic independent bookstore through the COVID-19 pandemic. Powell details how the business navigated emergency closures, severed ties with Amazon, and embraced empathetic leadership to preserve its multi-generational legacy and community mission.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 30.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Guy as informed peer 2.3 Guest teaching 2.0 Guest disagreement 0.4 Guy pushing back 0.0
speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 12:20 Emily firmly rejects long-term reliance on Amazon
Emily strongly asserts that Amazon only serves Amazon's interests and is fundamentally damaging to independent retail and local communities.
Hardest push from Guy ▶ 4:27 Guy challenges the initial lack of a contingency pivotGuy presses Emily on whether Powell's truly had no plan to immediately shift into an e-commerce model when shutting down retail stores.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 14:06 Emily details wholesale discounts and independent retail economicsEmily clearly educates Guy and the audience on publisher pricing discounts given to mass-scale buyers versus local retailers carrying living wages and overhead.
Guy holds their own ▶ 11:24 Guy cites Emily's 'quitting smoking' Amazon metaphorGuy demonstrates detailed research into Powell's public statements by framing the Amazon exit around Emily's own specific metaphor.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Guy as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Guy pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Portland's Urban Planning and Community Connection | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Guy prompts Emily using her past comments regarding Portland's unique environment. Emily provides detailed context on urban planning, pedestrian foot-traffic requirements, and the early timeline of the COVID-19 shutdown. | |
| E-Commerce Pivot and Difficult Downsizing | 3 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Guy probes into operational specifics, store counts, and revenue shares between brick-and-mortar and e-commerce. Emily clarifies their physical footprint downscaling and explains how revenue dropped 75 to 80 percent. | |
| Scrappy Survival, PPP Funding, and the Loss of In-Store Community | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Guy asks about transitioning communal store events online. Emily candidly explains the reality of razor-thin indie margins, the lifeline of PPP loans, and the difficulty of replicating in-person serendipity in a saturated digital landscape. | |
| Severing Ties with the Amazon Marketplace | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | Guy references Emily's analogy comparing Amazon to quitting smoking. Emily explains why cutting ties during a downturn seemed counterintuitive financially but was strategically and culturally vital. | |
| The Hidden Costs of Independent Book Selling vs. Big Retail | 3 | 3 | 1 | 0 | Guy asks whether consumers are intentionally favoring independent businesses over conglomerates. Emily educates listeners on publisher discount tiers, overhead costs, employee benefits, and community reinvestment differences. | |
| Audience Q&A: Curation, Media Consumption, and Keeping Powell's Local | 2 | 3 | 1 | 0 | Guy passes along audience questions regarding media habits and geographical expansion. Emily gently reframes the question about declining print readership into fundamental human curiosity and explains why geographic expansion outside Portland violates their business ethos. | |
| Enduring Takeaways and Personal Reading Picks | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Guy closes with reflective questions on management lessons and book recommendations. Emily shares insights on workplace emotional intelligence and her current reading stack. |
Statements from this episode (12)
Emily Powell: Powell's requires 9 AM to 9 PM pedestrian traffic
“So we say to be successful, we need nine AM to nine PM pedestrian traffic.”
Powell: Powell's closed and laid off staff before Oregon mandated shutdowns
“The governor hadn't moved yet to close us down. I think a lot of folks thought we were responding to, you know, a demand, but no, we felt really the compulsion that we need to do what we have to protect Portland. And so we shut down in the middle of the day, w…”
Emily Powell: Powell's Books permanently closed two stores, leaving three locations
“We had five we're down to, we just closed our airport store and our home and garden store permanently. So now we have three at this point.”
Powell: Pre-pandemic internet sales were roughly 20% of Powell's revenue
“Originally, you know, pre pandemic, we would have said our internet business was maybe 20% of our overall sales.”
Powell: Powell's Books overall sales are down 75% to 80%
“Now all of our sales, you know, collectively we're down about 75 to 80%.”
Powell: Powell's Books would not have survived without PPP funding
“First of all, if not for the PPP program, we wouldn't be here today, you know, fundamentally our loan that we received. So we shut down March. 15th, we received our loan in early May. If not for that loan, we wouldn't have been able to bring people back to wor…”
Powell's Books remains financially unsustainable after exhausting its PPP funds
“At this point, of course, those funds are exhausted, but we've been able to open the stores that's helping internet business has remained somewhat steady, but no, it's not sustainable. You know, that's the bottom line.”
Emily Powell: Amazon Marketplace will never help independent bookstores succeed
“And Amazon is never going to help us be successful in the long run. They're going to help Amazon be successful, and I don't believe that's good for Powell's. It's certainly not good for our community, so it wasn't something we had to put a lot of brain power b…”
Powell: Amazon fails its workers and harms local economies
“They're not the best employer. They're not taking care of their people. But they're also not supporting small businesses that allow our local economies to thrive.”
Emily Powell: Powell's Books workforce dropped from 500 to about 200 employees
“The number fluctuates a little bit, especially this year of COVID, but we're right around 200 employees. We were about 500 before this, so we're still nowhere close to where we'd like to be.”
Emily Powell: Bookstore economics make opening in Manhattan or SF nearly impossible
“Most cities don't have a neighborhood that is an obvious fit. And I know that probably sounds strange. Think of so many wonderful places to be. But they have to have that morning to nighttime, you know, possibility for business. And then they have to have affo…”
Emily Powell: Powell's will stay in Portland rather than expand nationally
“I believe books are a deeply personal product and a consumption process. And that means we need to know our community Pretty intimately, and I don't want to presume to take my business into, say, Austin, Texas, and know exactly what that community is going to …”