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May 11, 2021 · 28m · how-i-built-this

Meet The HIBT Fellows: Pierre Paul & Toby Egbuna

Toby Egbuna · 9m spoken Guy Raz · 8m spoken Pierre Paul · 7m spoken Troy Carter · 23s spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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Host Guy Raz showcases How I Built This Fellows Pierre Paul and Toby Egbuna, highlighting how their respective ventures—assistive translation tool We Hear You and workplace culture platform Chezzi—leverage lived experience to break down communication and career barriers for marginalized communities.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 31.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Guy as informed peer 2.6 Guest teaching 2.0 Guest disagreement 0.1 Guy pushing back 0.3
05100:0010:0020:001:42–5:49 · Guy as informed peer 2/10 Pierre Paul's Journey Through Language and Public Speaking Guy Raz warmly invites Pierre Paul to share his background growing up in the U.S. and his high school speech achievements. The dynamic is entirely collaborative and conversational with no friction.5:50–9:39 · Guy as informed peer 4/10 Pitching the Vision and Assembling the Team Guy demonstrates contextual knowledge by citing deaf-run establishments in D.C. and San Francisco before asking how the prototype functions. Pierre explains the technical implementation of fingerspelling on standard tablet hardware.9:40–13:00 · Guy as informed peer 2/10 Everyday Vision and Foundational Inclusion Philosophy Pierre articulates his core philosophy on inclusion, explaining why innovators must avoid adopting a 'hearing savior' mindset. Guy listens empathetically and asks about allocation of the fellowship grant.13:03–16:01 · Guy as informed peer 3/10 Mid-Show Transition and Preview of Toby Egbuna Guy introduces the second fellow, Toby Egbuna, and notes the familiar pattern of entrepreneurs cutting their teeth in management consulting. Toby explains how he got into diversity recruiting at UNC.16:02–18:05 · Guy as informed peer 2/10 The Genesis of Chezzi and Identity-Specific Insights When Guy asks if Toby immediately thought to build a business, Toby gently reframes the narrative, explaining he originally just wanted to find a corporate diversity role at Lyft. Guy connects Toby's insight to the shortcomings of platforms like Glassdoor.18:06–20:47 · Guy as informed peer 1/10 Building Chezzi: Portraits, Rebranding, and Community Features Toby details how Chezzi uses 'portraits' to provide identity-specific workplace reviews and explains rebranding from Diversifi. The dialogue remains constructive as Toby shares live user metrics.20:48–24:21 · Guy as informed peer 5/10 Story Verification and the Value of Curated Employee Interviews Guy brings up Yelp founder Jeremy Stoppelman and presses Toby on how Chezzi verifies anonymous reviews and prevents fraudulent submissions. Toby explains their high-touch 1-on-1 story interview process, which Guy acknowledges produces higher-value curated content.24:22–27:50 · Guy as informed peer 2/10 Navigating Ambiguity, Mentorship, and the Fellowship Grant Toby opens up about coping with founder ambiguity and reflects on leadership advice from Troy Carter. Guy closes the interview by asking how the $50k prize would enable Toby to take the leap full-time.1:42–5:49 · Guest teaching 1/10 Pierre Paul's Journey Through Language and Public Speaking Guy Raz warmly invites Pierre Paul to share his background growing up in the U.S. and his high school speech achievements. The dynamic is entirely collaborative and conversational with no friction.5:50–9:39 · Guest teaching 2/10 Pitching the Vision and Assembling the Team Guy demonstrates contextual knowledge by citing deaf-run establishments in D.C. and San Francisco before asking how the prototype functions. Pierre explains the technical implementation of fingerspelling on standard tablet hardware.9:40–13:00 · Guest teaching 3/10 Everyday Vision and Foundational Inclusion Philosophy Pierre articulates his core philosophy on inclusion, explaining why innovators must avoid adopting a 'hearing savior' mindset. Guy listens empathetically and asks about allocation of the fellowship grant.13:03–16:01 · Guest teaching 1/10 Mid-Show Transition and Preview of Toby Egbuna Guy introduces the second fellow, Toby Egbuna, and notes the familiar pattern of entrepreneurs cutting their teeth in management consulting. Toby explains how he got into diversity recruiting at UNC.16:02–18:05 · Guest teaching 3/10 The Genesis of Chezzi and Identity-Specific Insights When Guy asks if Toby immediately thought to build a business, Toby gently reframes the narrative, explaining he originally just wanted to find a corporate diversity role at Lyft. Guy connects Toby's insight to the shortcomings of platforms like Glassdoor.18:06–20:47 · Guest teaching 3/10 Building Chezzi: Portraits, Rebranding, and Community Features Toby details how Chezzi uses 'portraits' to provide identity-specific workplace reviews and explains rebranding from Diversifi. The dialogue remains constructive as Toby shares live user metrics.20:48–24:21 · Guest teaching 2/10 Story Verification and the Value of Curated Employee Interviews Guy brings up Yelp founder Jeremy Stoppelman and presses Toby on how Chezzi verifies anonymous reviews and prevents fraudulent submissions. Toby explains their high-touch 1-on-1 story interview process, which Guy acknowledges produces higher-value curated content.24:22–27:50 · Guest teaching 1/10 Navigating Ambiguity, Mentorship, and the Fellowship Grant Toby opens up about coping with founder ambiguity and reflects on leadership advice from Troy Carter. Guy closes the interview by asking how the $50k prize would enable Toby to take the leap full-time.1:42–5:49 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Pierre Paul's Journey Through Language and Public Speaking Guy Raz warmly invites Pierre Paul to share his background growing up in the U.S. and his high school speech achievements. The dynamic is entirely collaborative and conversational with no friction.5:50–9:39 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Pitching the Vision and Assembling the Team Guy demonstrates contextual knowledge by citing deaf-run establishments in D.C. and San Francisco before asking how the prototype functions. Pierre explains the technical implementation of fingerspelling on standard tablet hardware.9:40–13:00 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Everyday Vision and Foundational Inclusion Philosophy Pierre articulates his core philosophy on inclusion, explaining why innovators must avoid adopting a 'hearing savior' mindset. Guy listens empathetically and asks about allocation of the fellowship grant.13:03–16:01 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Mid-Show Transition and Preview of Toby Egbuna Guy introduces the second fellow, Toby Egbuna, and notes the familiar pattern of entrepreneurs cutting their teeth in management consulting. Toby explains how he got into diversity recruiting at UNC.16:02–18:05 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Genesis of Chezzi and Identity-Specific Insights When Guy asks if Toby immediately thought to build a business, Toby gently reframes the narrative, explaining he originally just wanted to find a corporate diversity role at Lyft. Guy connects Toby's insight to the shortcomings of platforms like Glassdoor.18:06–20:47 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Building Chezzi: Portraits, Rebranding, and Community Features Toby details how Chezzi uses 'portraits' to provide identity-specific workplace reviews and explains rebranding from Diversifi. The dialogue remains constructive as Toby shares live user metrics.20:48–24:21 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Story Verification and the Value of Curated Employee Interviews Guy brings up Yelp founder Jeremy Stoppelman and presses Toby on how Chezzi verifies anonymous reviews and prevents fraudulent submissions. Toby explains their high-touch 1-on-1 story interview process, which Guy acknowledges produces higher-value curated content.24:22–27:50 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Navigating Ambiguity, Mentorship, and the Fellowship Grant Toby opens up about coping with founder ambiguity and reflects on leadership advice from Troy Carter. Guy closes the interview by asking how the $50k prize would enable Toby to take the leap full-time.1:42–5:49 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Pierre Paul's Journey Through Language and Public Speaking Guy Raz warmly invites Pierre Paul to share his background growing up in the U.S. and his high school speech achievements. The dynamic is entirely collaborative and conversational with no friction.5:50–9:39 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Pitching the Vision and Assembling the Team Guy demonstrates contextual knowledge by citing deaf-run establishments in D.C. and San Francisco before asking how the prototype functions. Pierre explains the technical implementation of fingerspelling on standard tablet hardware.9:40–13:00 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Everyday Vision and Foundational Inclusion Philosophy Pierre articulates his core philosophy on inclusion, explaining why innovators must avoid adopting a 'hearing savior' mindset. Guy listens empathetically and asks about allocation of the fellowship grant.13:03–16:01 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Mid-Show Transition and Preview of Toby Egbuna Guy introduces the second fellow, Toby Egbuna, and notes the familiar pattern of entrepreneurs cutting their teeth in management consulting. Toby explains how he got into diversity recruiting at UNC.16:02–18:05 · Guy pushing back 0/10 The Genesis of Chezzi and Identity-Specific Insights When Guy asks if Toby immediately thought to build a business, Toby gently reframes the narrative, explaining he originally just wanted to find a corporate diversity role at Lyft. Guy connects Toby's insight to the shortcomings of platforms like Glassdoor.18:06–20:47 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Building Chezzi: Portraits, Rebranding, and Community Features Toby details how Chezzi uses 'portraits' to provide identity-specific workplace reviews and explains rebranding from Diversifi. The dialogue remains constructive as Toby shares live user metrics.20:48–24:21 · Guy pushing back 2/10 Story Verification and the Value of Curated Employee Interviews Guy brings up Yelp founder Jeremy Stoppelman and presses Toby on how Chezzi verifies anonymous reviews and prevents fraudulent submissions. Toby explains their high-touch 1-on-1 story interview process, which Guy acknowledges produces higher-value curated content.24:22–27:50 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Navigating Ambiguity, Mentorship, and the Fellowship Grant Toby opens up about coping with founder ambiguity and reflects on leadership advice from Troy Carter. Guy closes the interview by asking how the $50k prize would enable Toby to take the leap full-time.

speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Guy 58.8% · guest 41.2%0:00 · Guy 58.8% · guest 41.2%3:00 · Guy 20.4% · guest 79.6%3:00 · Guy 20.4% · guest 79.6%6:00 · Guy 33.1% · guest 66.9%6:00 · Guy 33.1% · guest 66.9%9:00 · Guy 30.8% · guest 69.2%9:00 · Guy 30.8% · guest 69.2%12:00 · Guy 43.3% · guest 56.7%12:00 · Guy 43.3% · guest 56.7%15:00 · Guy 25.7% · guest 74.3%15:00 · Guy 25.7% · guest 74.3%18:00 · Guy 15.4% · guest 84.6%18:00 · Guy 15.4% · guest 84.6%21:00 · Guy 23.1% · guest 76.9%21:00 · Guy 23.1% · guest 76.9%24:00 · Guy 19.4% · guest 80.6%24:00 · Guy 19.4% · guest 80.6%27:00 · Guy 57.3% · guest 42.7%27:00 · Guy 57.3% · guest 42.7%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 16:11 Toby politely corrects the premise about his founder journey

Toby directly rejects Guy's assumption that he was looking to build a business immediately, clarifying he was initially just seeking a corporate role at Lyft.

 Hardest push from Guy ▶ 21:36 Guy challenges Toby on review authenticity and platform trust

Guy brings up Yelp and Glassdoor credibility issues, pushing Toby to explain how Chezzi validates that anonymous contributors actually work at the companies they review.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 11:40 Pierre educates on avoiding a hearing-savior approach

Pierre explains the critical distinction between building tech from a hearing-centric point of view versus working as an ally in direct consultation with the deaf community.

 Guy holds their own ▶ 21:36 Guy references Jeremy Stoppelman interview and review fraud dynamics

Guy draws on his extensive interview archive to formulate a sharp question regarding review verification and competitor sabotage.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicGuy as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementGuy pushing backWhy
Pierre Paul's Journey Through Language and Public Speaking 2100 Guy Raz warmly invites Pierre Paul to share his background growing up in the U.S. and his high school speech achievements. The dynamic is entirely collaborative and conversational with no friction.
Pitching the Vision and Assembling the Team 4200 Guy demonstrates contextual knowledge by citing deaf-run establishments in D.C. and San Francisco before asking how the prototype functions. Pierre explains the technical implementation of fingerspelling on standard tablet hardware.
Everyday Vision and Foundational Inclusion Philosophy 2300 Pierre articulates his core philosophy on inclusion, explaining why innovators must avoid adopting a 'hearing savior' mindset. Guy listens empathetically and asks about allocation of the fellowship grant.
Mid-Show Transition and Preview of Toby Egbuna 3100 Guy introduces the second fellow, Toby Egbuna, and notes the familiar pattern of entrepreneurs cutting their teeth in management consulting. Toby explains how he got into diversity recruiting at UNC.
The Genesis of Chezzi and Identity-Specific Insights 2310 When Guy asks if Toby immediately thought to build a business, Toby gently reframes the narrative, explaining he originally just wanted to find a corporate diversity role at Lyft. Guy connects Toby's insight to the shortcomings of platforms like Glassdoor.
Building Chezzi: Portraits, Rebranding, and Community Features 1300 Toby details how Chezzi uses 'portraits' to provide identity-specific workplace reviews and explains rebranding from Diversifi. The dialogue remains constructive as Toby shares live user metrics.
Story Verification and the Value of Curated Employee Interviews 5202 Guy brings up Yelp founder Jeremy Stoppelman and presses Toby on how Chezzi verifies anonymous reviews and prevents fraudulent submissions. Toby explains their high-touch 1-on-1 story interview process, which Guy acknowledges produces higher-value curated content.
Navigating Ambiguity, Mentorship, and the Fellowship Grant 2100 Toby opens up about coping with founder ambiguity and reflects on leadership advice from Troy Carter. Guy closes the interview by asking how the $50k prize would enable Toby to take the leap full-time.

Statements from this episode (9)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Paul: Deaf individuals face severe communication barriers at food establishments
“The fact that individuals with hearing exceptionalities, whether it be their hard of hearing or their deaf, have a hard time communicating at food establishments. And it was as simple as they tried to order food, whether writing it on a piece of paper or a nap…”
Pierre Paul May 11, 2021 ▶ 4:17
Disclosure
Pierre Paul: Experts repeatedly claimed We Hear You could not be built
“I started going to every single professor and every single professional who might have an expertise in this area, and I was told no so many times. I was told, really great idea, can't be done. Really great idea, we don't know where to start.”
Pierre Paul May 11, 2021 ▶ 6:32
Opinion
Paul: Previous sign language translators failed due to hearing-centric design
“People have tried time and time again to create a sign language translator, but they do it from a hearing-centric perspective.”
Pierre Paul May 11, 2021 ▶ 12:05
Opinion
Egbuna: Companies were not serious about diversity roles before 2020
“And this is three years ago before everything happened last summer. So like, you know, there were jobs out there, but companies weren't really serious about hiring for it.”
Toby Egbuna May 11, 2021 ▶ 16:29
Opinion
Egbuna: Job seekers lack insight into marginalized workplace experiences
“There's not really a way for you to know what it's like to be black or, you know, in her case, a black woman or gay or disabled or whatever at a company.”
Toby Egbuna May 11, 2021 ▶ 17:14
Opinion
Toby Egbuna: Glassdoor reviews are one-size-fits-all and lack demographic context
“Like, I mean, everyone uses Glassdoor, but I think Glassdoor is just very... It's very one size fits all. You know, a lot of the reviews that they have are very hot or cold. It's very much like, I didn't get the job. This company sucks. Don't ever work here. O…”
Toby Egbuna May 11, 2021 ▶ 18:07
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Toby Egbuna: Chezzi has 1,400 stories and roughly 1,200 users
“We Have about 1400 stories from companies at some companies like Google, Goldman Sachs, Facebook. We have around 1200 people signed up for our platform, maybe around 1212 150. I haven't checked today.”
Toby Egbuna May 11, 2021 ▶ 19:43
Opinion
Toby Egbuna: Diversity recruiting relies on passive 'post and pray' methods
“Every company right now is trying to recruit diverse talent, but they're all just kind of like posting some jobs over here and hoping that they get found.”
Toby Egbuna May 11, 2021 ▶ 20:21
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Egbuna: Most initial Chezzi reviews are positive, not company-bashing
“When people hear about, think of like a glass door for minorities, they immediately think like people are coming here to bash their companies. That's not the case. A lot of the stories that we've gathered are positive.”
Toby Egbuna May 11, 2021 ▶ 22:37
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