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May 18, 2021 · 24m · how-i-built-this

Meet The HIBT Fellows: Mark Atlan & Zach Correa

Mark Atlan · 8m spoken Zach Correa · 6m spoken Guy Raz · 6m spoken Michael Horvath · 50s spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this special Fellows edition of How I Built This, host Guy Raz spotlights entrepreneurs Mark Atlan of ZapCare and Zach Correa of Lemongraft as they pitch their community-focused ventures for a $50,000 business grant. Through mobile reservation healthcare and decentralized backyard produce marketplaces, both founders demonstrate how localized innovation can dismantle systemic health and sustainability challenges.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 28.2% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Guy as informed peer 2.0 Guest teaching 3.1 Guest disagreement 0.3 Guy pushing back 0.9
05100:0010:0020:000:49–4:11 · Guy as informed peer 3/10 Addressing Healthcare Inequities in the Navajo Nation Mark educates Guy on the harsh realities of healthcare in the Navajo Nation, citing statistics on diabetes rates and the logistical challenges of 27,000 square miles served by only nine facilities. Guy demonstrates baseline familiarity with the Indian Health Service while facilitating Mark's explanation.4:11–6:11 · Guy as informed peer 1/10 Mark Atlan's Childhood Lessons and Personal Mission Guy gives Mark space to recount a personal narrative about his upbringing, his grandmother's influence, and losing her to COVID-19. The dynamic is purely empathetic and listening-focused.6:13–9:42 · Guy as informed peer 2/10 ZapCare's Mobile Fleet Operations and Business Model Guy asks practical clarifying questions about ZapCare's commercial viability and vehicle logistics. Mark details Navajo procurement law priority and the operational distinctions between mobile optometry and complex mobile dialysis.9:46–13:14 · Guy as informed peer 3/10 Cultural Alignment, Startup Experience, and Grant Allocation Guy gently presses Mark on his lack of a medical background and his past failed ventures. Mark directly addresses each concern by highlighting cultural expertise, advisory boards, and early timing lessons from previous mobile apps.13:16–15:51 · Guy as informed peer 1/10 Mid-Show Transition and Return Guy introduces Zach Correa and Lemongraft, summarizing the platform's core peer-to-peer concept. Zach explains the logistics of local community drop points in a completely collaborative exchange.15:51–19:46 · Guy as informed peer 2/10 Architectural Background and Championing Native Foodways Guy questions whether the business model can scale to colder climates like northern Minnesota. Zach reframes the question away from standard industrial supply chains toward rediscovering hyper-local seasonal and native edible plants.19:47–22:42 · Guy as informed peer 2/10 Business Model and Community Building Insights Guy queries the financial mechanics, unpaid team structure, and lessons from mentor Michael Horvath. Zach shares insights on staying true to foundational values while scaling community platforms.0:49–4:11 · Guest teaching 6/10 Addressing Healthcare Inequities in the Navajo Nation Mark educates Guy on the harsh realities of healthcare in the Navajo Nation, citing statistics on diabetes rates and the logistical challenges of 27,000 square miles served by only nine facilities. Guy demonstrates baseline familiarity with the Indian Health Service while facilitating Mark's explanation.4:11–6:11 · Guest teaching 2/10 Mark Atlan's Childhood Lessons and Personal Mission Guy gives Mark space to recount a personal narrative about his upbringing, his grandmother's influence, and losing her to COVID-19. The dynamic is purely empathetic and listening-focused.6:13–9:42 · Guest teaching 3/10 ZapCare's Mobile Fleet Operations and Business Model Guy asks practical clarifying questions about ZapCare's commercial viability and vehicle logistics. Mark details Navajo procurement law priority and the operational distinctions between mobile optometry and complex mobile dialysis.9:46–13:14 · Guest teaching 3/10 Cultural Alignment, Startup Experience, and Grant Allocation Guy gently presses Mark on his lack of a medical background and his past failed ventures. Mark directly addresses each concern by highlighting cultural expertise, advisory boards, and early timing lessons from previous mobile apps.13:16–15:51 · Guest teaching 2/10 Mid-Show Transition and Return Guy introduces Zach Correa and Lemongraft, summarizing the platform's core peer-to-peer concept. Zach explains the logistics of local community drop points in a completely collaborative exchange.15:51–19:46 · Guest teaching 4/10 Architectural Background and Championing Native Foodways Guy questions whether the business model can scale to colder climates like northern Minnesota. Zach reframes the question away from standard industrial supply chains toward rediscovering hyper-local seasonal and native edible plants.19:47–22:42 · Guest teaching 2/10 Business Model and Community Building Insights Guy queries the financial mechanics, unpaid team structure, and lessons from mentor Michael Horvath. Zach shares insights on staying true to foundational values while scaling community platforms.0:49–4:11 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Addressing Healthcare Inequities in the Navajo Nation Mark educates Guy on the harsh realities of healthcare in the Navajo Nation, citing statistics on diabetes rates and the logistical challenges of 27,000 square miles served by only nine facilities. Guy demonstrates baseline familiarity with the Indian Health Service while facilitating Mark's explanation.4:11–6:11 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Mark Atlan's Childhood Lessons and Personal Mission Guy gives Mark space to recount a personal narrative about his upbringing, his grandmother's influence, and losing her to COVID-19. The dynamic is purely empathetic and listening-focused.6:13–9:42 · Guest disagreement 0/10 ZapCare's Mobile Fleet Operations and Business Model Guy asks practical clarifying questions about ZapCare's commercial viability and vehicle logistics. Mark details Navajo procurement law priority and the operational distinctions between mobile optometry and complex mobile dialysis.9:46–13:14 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Cultural Alignment, Startup Experience, and Grant Allocation Guy gently presses Mark on his lack of a medical background and his past failed ventures. Mark directly addresses each concern by highlighting cultural expertise, advisory boards, and early timing lessons from previous mobile apps.13:16–15:51 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Mid-Show Transition and Return Guy introduces Zach Correa and Lemongraft, summarizing the platform's core peer-to-peer concept. Zach explains the logistics of local community drop points in a completely collaborative exchange.15:51–19:46 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Architectural Background and Championing Native Foodways Guy questions whether the business model can scale to colder climates like northern Minnesota. Zach reframes the question away from standard industrial supply chains toward rediscovering hyper-local seasonal and native edible plants.19:47–22:42 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Business Model and Community Building Insights Guy queries the financial mechanics, unpaid team structure, and lessons from mentor Michael Horvath. Zach shares insights on staying true to foundational values while scaling community platforms.0:49–4:11 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Addressing Healthcare Inequities in the Navajo Nation Mark educates Guy on the harsh realities of healthcare in the Navajo Nation, citing statistics on diabetes rates and the logistical challenges of 27,000 square miles served by only nine facilities. Guy demonstrates baseline familiarity with the Indian Health Service while facilitating Mark's explanation.4:11–6:11 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Mark Atlan's Childhood Lessons and Personal Mission Guy gives Mark space to recount a personal narrative about his upbringing, his grandmother's influence, and losing her to COVID-19. The dynamic is purely empathetic and listening-focused.6:13–9:42 · Guy pushing back 1/10 ZapCare's Mobile Fleet Operations and Business Model Guy asks practical clarifying questions about ZapCare's commercial viability and vehicle logistics. Mark details Navajo procurement law priority and the operational distinctions between mobile optometry and complex mobile dialysis.9:46–13:14 · Guy pushing back 3/10 Cultural Alignment, Startup Experience, and Grant Allocation Guy gently presses Mark on his lack of a medical background and his past failed ventures. Mark directly addresses each concern by highlighting cultural expertise, advisory boards, and early timing lessons from previous mobile apps.13:16–15:51 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Mid-Show Transition and Return Guy introduces Zach Correa and Lemongraft, summarizing the platform's core peer-to-peer concept. Zach explains the logistics of local community drop points in a completely collaborative exchange.15:51–19:46 · Guy pushing back 2/10 Architectural Background and Championing Native Foodways Guy questions whether the business model can scale to colder climates like northern Minnesota. Zach reframes the question away from standard industrial supply chains toward rediscovering hyper-local seasonal and native edible plants.19:47–22:42 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Business Model and Community Building Insights Guy queries the financial mechanics, unpaid team structure, and lessons from mentor Michael Horvath. Zach shares insights on staying true to foundational values while scaling community platforms.

speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Guy 62.1% · guest 37.9%0:00 · Guy 62.1% · guest 37.9%3:00 · Guy 18.3% · guest 81.7%3:00 · Guy 18.3% · guest 81.7%6:00 · Guy 30% · guest 70%6:00 · Guy 30% · guest 70%9:00 · Guy 12% · guest 88%9:00 · Guy 12% · guest 88%12:00 · Guy 45.8% · guest 54.2%12:00 · Guy 45.8% · guest 54.2%15:00 · Guy 14.3% · guest 85.7%15:00 · Guy 14.3% · guest 85.7%18:00 · Guy 11.1% · guest 88.9%18:00 · Guy 11.1% · guest 88.9%21:00 · Guy 28.4% · guest 71.6%21:00 · Guy 28.4% · guest 71.6%24:00 · Guy 100% · guest 0%24:00 · Guy 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 17:35 Reframing geographic viability

When Guy asks if the model works in cold climates like Minnesota, Zach politely challenges the premise by asking whether consumers should expect out-of-season produce rather than native plants.

 Hardest push from Guy ▶ 10:09 Questioning founder medical credentials

Guy pointedly asks Mark why he believes he can execute a complex healthcare delivery service given that his professional background is in finance rather than medicine.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 1:11 Navajo Nation healthcare disparity statistics

Mark delivers stark data points to Guy, contrasting the 9.4% national diabetes average with the Navajo Nation's 81% obesity and diabetes rate alongside severe basic infrastructure deficits.

 Guy holds their own ▶ 1:54 Guy contextualizes the Indian Health Service

Guy displays independent knowledge of the structural setup and challenges of the HHS-funded Indian Health Service before prompting Mark for further ground-level detail.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicGuy as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementGuy pushing backWhy
Addressing Healthcare Inequities in the Navajo Nation 3600 Mark educates Guy on the harsh realities of healthcare in the Navajo Nation, citing statistics on diabetes rates and the logistical challenges of 27,000 square miles served by only nine facilities. Guy demonstrates baseline familiarity with the Indian Health Service while facilitating Mark's explanation.
Mark Atlan's Childhood Lessons and Personal Mission 1200 Guy gives Mark space to recount a personal narrative about his upbringing, his grandmother's influence, and losing her to COVID-19. The dynamic is purely empathetic and listening-focused.
ZapCare's Mobile Fleet Operations and Business Model 2301 Guy asks practical clarifying questions about ZapCare's commercial viability and vehicle logistics. Mark details Navajo procurement law priority and the operational distinctions between mobile optometry and complex mobile dialysis.
Cultural Alignment, Startup Experience, and Grant Allocation 3313 Guy gently presses Mark on his lack of a medical background and his past failed ventures. Mark directly addresses each concern by highlighting cultural expertise, advisory boards, and early timing lessons from previous mobile apps.
Mid-Show Transition and Return 1200 Guy introduces Zach Correa and Lemongraft, summarizing the platform's core peer-to-peer concept. Zach explains the logistics of local community drop points in a completely collaborative exchange.
Architectural Background and Championing Native Foodways 2412 Guy questions whether the business model can scale to colder climates like northern Minnesota. Zach reframes the question away from standard industrial supply chains toward rediscovering hyper-local seasonal and native edible plants.
Business Model and Community Building Insights 2200 Guy queries the financial mechanics, unpaid team structure, and lessons from mentor Michael Horvath. Zach shares insights on staying true to foundational values while scaling community platforms.

Statements from this episode (13)

Assertion Partly supported
Atlan: 43% of Navajo residents lack running water or electricity
“43% don't have access to running water electricity in their homes.”
Mark Atlan May 18, 2021 ▶ 1:21
Assertion Partly supported
Atlan: The Navajo Nation faces an 81% obesity and diabetes rate
“The United States has about a 9.4% diabetes rate, and the Navajo nation has a 81% obesity and diabetes rate”
Mark Atlan May 18, 2021 ▶ 1:31
Assertion Partly supported
Atlan: The Navajo Nation has nine health facilities for 27,000 square miles
“It's 27,000 square miles, and there's only nine IHS locations.”
Mark Atlan May 18, 2021 ▶ 3:14
Disclosure
ZapCare plans to expand healthcare services to the Cherokee Nation and beyond
“As we focus on bringing healthcare services directly to the patient, starting with the Navajo Nation, we want to go to the next tribe, which is Cherokee Nation, or in Florida, and eventually come off of the reservation and offer our services, but we really wan…”
Mark Atlan May 18, 2021 ▶ 5:50
Assertion Supported
Atlan: Navajo law mandates the Nation prioritize Native-owned ZapCare's services
“The key to our business is we have priority status on the Navajo Nation, which means By Navajo law, since we're native owned, they're required to use our services, they're required to source our services over anybody else.”
Mark Atlan May 18, 2021 ▶ 6:35
Opinion
Atlan: Reservation healthcare ventures must be led from within Native communities
“This project needs to come from within. This project needs to come from a native. I've lived, ah, where I grew up, what I grew up with. I know the culture. First, it needs to start within.”
Mark Atlan May 18, 2021 ▶ 10:21
Assertion Supported
Atlan: The Navajo Nation suffers from a 48% unemployment rate
“Right now, the Navajo Nation has a 48% unemployment rate.”
Mark Atlan May 18, 2021 ▶ 11:25
Disclosure
Correa: Lemongraft aggregates small-scale backyard garden produce into an online marketplace
“So if you have a backyard, or a small garden of some sort, you can start to plant things in your yard, and where you couldn't sell it in traditional markets because the quantities aren't high enough, and oftentimes the barriers to entry are too high, and it's …”
Zach Correa May 18, 2021 ▶ 14:11
Disclosure
Correa: Lemongraft uses neighborhood pickup hubs for local backyard produce
“So our app is still in development, but once it's built, the idea is, is that you would open up the app and search your community. Your community would have a series of drop points. These drop points would be other people in your community that are hosting a c…”
Zach Correa May 18, 2021 ▶ 15:16
Insight
Correa: A regenerative food supply is the foundation of community sustainability
“Food, it turns out, is at, like, the base of this big problem. And if we can just build a regenerative food supply, then that is the one thing that will grow and branch into all other categories of sustainability. And all the other infrastructure will begin to…”
Zach Correa May 18, 2021 ▶ 16:57
Disclosure
Correa: Lemongraft partners with chefs to develop recipes for wild edible plants
“We actually have a team of chefs who are working on creating recipes from these wild edible plants that we've forgotten about, and starting to bring identity, like local geographic identity, back to our communities”
Zach Correa May 18, 2021 ▶ 18:33
Disclosure
Correa: Lemongraft aggregates hyper-local growers around specific meal recipes
“What we do is we market it in, in meals. So we can actually, on the platform, we can show dishes and you can say like, wow, that looks delicious. I would love to eat that this week. You click on that. We aggregate all the farmers that are currently growing the…”
Zach Correa May 18, 2021 ▶ 19:15
Disclosure
Correa: Lemongraft's team and partner software developers are all working for free
“Everyone's working for free. Yeah, that's exactly right. We did partner with a development team. They are also working for free, but they are, as a partner, they're developing the software.”
Zach Correa May 18, 2021 ▶ 20:44
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