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Apr 21, 2022 · 29m · how-i-built-this

HIBT Lab! WeWork: Miguel McKelvey

Miguel McKelvey · 18m spoken Guy Raz · 8m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of How I Built This Lab, WeWork co-founder Miguel McKelvey reflects on the company's hyper-growth, the fallout of its failed 2019 IPO, and his personal journey toward purpose-driven entrepreneurship and restorative accountability.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 33.9% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Guy as informed peer 4.3 Guest teaching 3.0 Guest disagreement 1.8 Guy pushing back 3.0
05100:0010:0020:002:00–7:20 · Guy as informed peer 5/10 Hyper-Growth, SoftBank Funding, and Expansion Strategy Guy demonstrates familiarity with WeWork's timeline, citing SoftBank's four billion dollar investment and specific offshoot projects like WeLive and WeGrow. Miguel provides an insider reframe, arguing their downfall was not flawed operational execution or overextension, but the false premise that continuous capital would always be available.7:34–17:17 · Guy as informed peer 5/10 The Failed IPO, Public Scrutiny, and Partner Dynamics Guy presses sharply on the public outrage surrounding Adam Neumann's leadership, the cult of personality, and massive founder payouts. Miguel resists the host's narrative, correcting Guy's assumption that he was an introvert and explaining the technical reality of founder equity versus cash windfalls.17:30–23:09 · Guy as informed peer 4/10 Navigating COVID-19, Downsizing, and Media Dramatizations Guy asks about the dual challenge of downsizing and COVID lockdowns, as well as mainstream media dramatizations of WeWork. Miguel is open and collaborative, describing the emotional burden on employees and why he chose personal therapy over participating in media projects.23:11–28:05 · Guy as informed peer 3/10 New Ventures, Inclusive Entrepreneurship, and Restorative Lessons Guy provides open-ended prompts inquiring about Miguel's new ventures supporting underrepresented entrepreneurs and key takeaways from his career. Miguel shares his philosophy on inclusive entrepreneurship and advocates for restorative integration over punitive cancel culture.2:00–7:20 · Guest teaching 3/10 Hyper-Growth, SoftBank Funding, and Expansion Strategy Guy demonstrates familiarity with WeWork's timeline, citing SoftBank's four billion dollar investment and specific offshoot projects like WeLive and WeGrow. Miguel provides an insider reframe, arguing their downfall was not flawed operational execution or overextension, but the false premise that continuous capital would always be available.7:34–17:17 · Guest teaching 5/10 The Failed IPO, Public Scrutiny, and Partner Dynamics Guy presses sharply on the public outrage surrounding Adam Neumann's leadership, the cult of personality, and massive founder payouts. Miguel resists the host's narrative, correcting Guy's assumption that he was an introvert and explaining the technical reality of founder equity versus cash windfalls.17:30–23:09 · Guest teaching 2/10 Navigating COVID-19, Downsizing, and Media Dramatizations Guy asks about the dual challenge of downsizing and COVID lockdowns, as well as mainstream media dramatizations of WeWork. Miguel is open and collaborative, describing the emotional burden on employees and why he chose personal therapy over participating in media projects.23:11–28:05 · Guest teaching 2/10 New Ventures, Inclusive Entrepreneurship, and Restorative Lessons Guy provides open-ended prompts inquiring about Miguel's new ventures supporting underrepresented entrepreneurs and key takeaways from his career. Miguel shares his philosophy on inclusive entrepreneurship and advocates for restorative integration over punitive cancel culture.2:00–7:20 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Hyper-Growth, SoftBank Funding, and Expansion Strategy Guy demonstrates familiarity with WeWork's timeline, citing SoftBank's four billion dollar investment and specific offshoot projects like WeLive and WeGrow. Miguel provides an insider reframe, arguing their downfall was not flawed operational execution or overextension, but the false premise that continuous capital would always be available.7:34–17:17 · Guest disagreement 3/10 The Failed IPO, Public Scrutiny, and Partner Dynamics Guy presses sharply on the public outrage surrounding Adam Neumann's leadership, the cult of personality, and massive founder payouts. Miguel resists the host's narrative, correcting Guy's assumption that he was an introvert and explaining the technical reality of founder equity versus cash windfalls.17:30–23:09 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Navigating COVID-19, Downsizing, and Media Dramatizations Guy asks about the dual challenge of downsizing and COVID lockdowns, as well as mainstream media dramatizations of WeWork. Miguel is open and collaborative, describing the emotional burden on employees and why he chose personal therapy over participating in media projects.23:11–28:05 · Guest disagreement 1/10 New Ventures, Inclusive Entrepreneurship, and Restorative Lessons Guy provides open-ended prompts inquiring about Miguel's new ventures supporting underrepresented entrepreneurs and key takeaways from his career. Miguel shares his philosophy on inclusive entrepreneurship and advocates for restorative integration over punitive cancel culture.2:00–7:20 · Guy pushing back 3/10 Hyper-Growth, SoftBank Funding, and Expansion Strategy Guy demonstrates familiarity with WeWork's timeline, citing SoftBank's four billion dollar investment and specific offshoot projects like WeLive and WeGrow. Miguel provides an insider reframe, arguing their downfall was not flawed operational execution or overextension, but the false premise that continuous capital would always be available.7:34–17:17 · Guy pushing back 6/10 The Failed IPO, Public Scrutiny, and Partner Dynamics Guy presses sharply on the public outrage surrounding Adam Neumann's leadership, the cult of personality, and massive founder payouts. Miguel resists the host's narrative, correcting Guy's assumption that he was an introvert and explaining the technical reality of founder equity versus cash windfalls.17:30–23:09 · Guy pushing back 2/10 Navigating COVID-19, Downsizing, and Media Dramatizations Guy asks about the dual challenge of downsizing and COVID lockdowns, as well as mainstream media dramatizations of WeWork. Miguel is open and collaborative, describing the emotional burden on employees and why he chose personal therapy over participating in media projects.23:11–28:05 · Guy pushing back 1/10 New Ventures, Inclusive Entrepreneurship, and Restorative Lessons Guy provides open-ended prompts inquiring about Miguel's new ventures supporting underrepresented entrepreneurs and key takeaways from his career. Miguel shares his philosophy on inclusive entrepreneurship and advocates for restorative integration over punitive cancel culture.

speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Guy 84.4% · guest 15.6%0:00 · Guy 84.4% · guest 15.6%3:00 · Guy 29.7% · guest 70.3%3:00 · Guy 29.7% · guest 70.3%6:00 · Guy 43.7% · guest 56.3%6:00 · Guy 43.7% · guest 56.3%9:00 · Guy 26.3% · guest 73.7%9:00 · Guy 26.3% · guest 73.7%12:00 · Guy 21.1% · guest 78.9%12:00 · Guy 21.1% · guest 78.9%15:00 · Guy 34.8% · guest 65.2%15:00 · Guy 34.8% · guest 65.2%18:00 · Guy 13% · guest 87%18:00 · Guy 13% · guest 87%21:00 · Guy 26.5% · guest 73.5%21:00 · Guy 26.5% · guest 73.5%24:00 · Guy 14.9% · guest 85.1%24:00 · Guy 14.9% · guest 85.1%27:00 · Guy 49.5% · guest 50.5%27:00 · Guy 49.5% · guest 50.5%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 13:39 Pushback on introvert label

Miguel directly rejects Guy's framing that he was the quiet, introverted background partner, pointing out that he drew energy from people while Neumann often worked behind closed doors.

 Hardest push from Guy ▶ 11:30 Host challenges founder payout backlash

Guy refuses to gloss over the fallout, directly challenging Miguel on whether the public anger over massive founder payouts during company collapse was legitimate.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 11:49 Explanation of founder equity mechanics

Miguel educates Guy and listeners on the mechanics of founder shares, explaining that retaining stock value upon leaving is standard rather than an unearned cash payout.

 Guy holds their own ▶ 7:34 Host details valuation peak and IPO collapse

Guy exhibits his command of business reporting by laying out the exact valuation peak of forty-seven billion dollars and how public S-1 filings unmasked unsustainable losses.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicGuy as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementGuy pushing backWhy
Hyper-Growth, SoftBank Funding, and Expansion Strategy 5323 Guy demonstrates familiarity with WeWork's timeline, citing SoftBank's four billion dollar investment and specific offshoot projects like WeLive and WeGrow. Miguel provides an insider reframe, arguing their downfall was not flawed operational execution or overextension, but the false premise that continuous capital would always be available.
The Failed IPO, Public Scrutiny, and Partner Dynamics 5536 Guy presses sharply on the public outrage surrounding Adam Neumann's leadership, the cult of personality, and massive founder payouts. Miguel resists the host's narrative, correcting Guy's assumption that he was an introvert and explaining the technical reality of founder equity versus cash windfalls.
Navigating COVID-19, Downsizing, and Media Dramatizations 4212 Guy asks about the dual challenge of downsizing and COVID lockdowns, as well as mainstream media dramatizations of WeWork. Miguel is open and collaborative, describing the emotional burden on employees and why he chose personal therapy over participating in media projects.
New Ventures, Inclusive Entrepreneurship, and Restorative Lessons 3211 Guy provides open-ended prompts inquiring about Miguel's new ventures supporting underrepresented entrepreneurs and key takeaways from his career. Miguel shares his philosophy on inclusive entrepreneurship and advocates for restorative integration over punitive cancel culture.

Statements from this episode (9)

Disclosure
McKelvey: SoftBank pushed WeWork to prioritize market share over profitability
“When SoftBank made that investment, it opened us up to a new way of thinking about how do you build a company and the way that, you know, I would say they prescribed and we agreed to was that capturing as much market share as possible was the way to go.”
Miguel McKelvey Apr 21, 2022 ▶ 3:23
Opinion
McKelvey: WeLive and WeGrow were good experiments with real potential
“In the case of the things you talked about in terms of we live and we grow, I actually think both of those were really good experiments, you know, for us to be looking at other ways to build our company, you know, with a more diversified offering. I think thos…”
Miguel McKelvey Apr 21, 2022 ▶ 5:15
Opinion
McKelvey: WeWork failed on capital assumptions, not operational execution
“It wasn't like we were overextended in our ability to execute on the business model. I think what we were overextended in was the Ability that we could get the continuous capital we would need to continue that expansion, you know, and those are two completely …”
Miguel McKelvey Apr 21, 2022 ▶ 6:42
Assertion Not checkable as stated
McKelvey: WeWork's massive pre-IPO losses were deliberate investments in growth
“The challenge that we are facing is that it's not that those losses were a surprise. They were by design. You know, again, we were a fast growing company and we were investing in our growth. And so we were making the decision to lose money.”
Miguel McKelvey Apr 21, 2022 ▶ 8:47
Opinion
McKelvey: Public market narrative completely shifted after Uber's IPO
“If you look about what did the market want, it completely changed after Uber's IPO. And all of a sudden there was a shift in terms of the market narrative.”
Miguel McKelvey Apr 21, 2022 ▶ 9:12
Opinion
McKelvey: Adam Neumann was trying to save WeWork during 2019 crisis
“What I saw him trying to do through that process was save the company, you know, in every step of the way, his goal was to preserve WeWork and to preserve what we had built.”
Miguel McKelvey Apr 21, 2022 ▶ 10:32
Disclosure
McKelvey would not co-found another company with Adam Neumann
“I don't think that I would primarily because it doesn't support my own journey. I put myself into that second position because of a lot of insecurity and things that I thought I couldn't do. And so being around a person who's very much an alpha, you know, is v…”
Miguel McKelvey Apr 21, 2022 ▶ 16:30
Disclosure
McKelvey refused to participate in media dramatizations about WeWork
“No, I haven't. And I think a lot of the reason for that was that I was always trying to make sense of it myself, and I don't really feel like participating in someone else's agenda was helpful to me in, in any way.”
Miguel McKelvey Apr 21, 2022 ▶ 20:19
Opinion
McKelvey: Vilifying and punishing Adam Neumann for mistakes does not serve society
“You can look at Adam as an example of a person who did a bunch of things and was attacked and vilified and sort of canceled. There was some shadow in him, and there's some shadow in me, there's some shadow in all of us, and what's the best thing is for us to b…”
Miguel McKelvey Apr 21, 2022 ▶ 27:16
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