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May 12, 2022 · 31m · how-i-built-this

HIBT Lab! ClassPass: Payal Kadakia

Payal Kadakia · 21m spoken Guy Raz · 7m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

ClassPass co-founder Payal Kadakia joins Guy Raz to discuss guiding her company through pandemic upheaval to its acquisition by Mindbody, while sharing actionable frameworks for goal setting, resilience, and personal fulfillment from her book LifePass.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 27.4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Guy as informed peer 3.0 Guest teaching 3.0 Guest disagreement 0.3 Guy pushing back 0.5
05100:0010:0020:0030:001:36–9:07 · Guy as informed peer 3/10 Navigating the Pandemic and Leading with Empathy Guy Raz grounds the discussion in their past pandemic interview and gently presses Kadakia on whether she was truly confident or privately freaking out. Kadakia reframes the idea of going backwards during the pandemic as a chance to find operational efficiency.9:18–14:48 · Guy as informed peer 5/10 The Mindbody Partnership and ClassPass Acquisition Raz contributes industry context by drawing an analogy between ClassPass/Mindbody and eBay's acquisition of PayPal. Kadakia educates on how integrating Mindbody's backend API allowed ClassPass to build a consumer app without creating SaaS tools from scratch.14:49–18:52 · Guy as informed peer 4/10 Chasing Impact Beyond ClassPass and Artistic Pursuits Raz brings up Ted Turner's America's Cup championship as an analogy to Kadakia's dual career in dance and business. Kadakia pushes back against the conventional post-exit expectation of building another huge tech company, shifting the focus entirely to chasing artistic impact.18:52–22:11 · Guy as informed peer 2/10 Introduction to LifePass and Overcoming Constraints Raz introduces the themes and reflective questions in Kadakia's new book LifePass. Kadakia explains how the target audience expanded from twenty-somethings to anyone navigating life transitions and societal constraints.22:22–25:47 · Guy as informed peer 1/10 The Four-Step LifePass Goal-Setting Method Raz prompts Kadakia to explain her goal-setting method, stepping back to let her teach the four-step framework. Kadakia details why quarterly focus periods outperform annual resolutions and how grounding goals in emotional words prevents misalignment.25:49–28:21 · Guy as informed peer 3/10 Taking the Leap and Clearing the Noise Raz quotes directly from Kadakia's book regarding the hazards of compartmentalizing identity between corporate and creative pursuits. Kadakia shares practical advice on tuning out societal 'shoulds' and unifying one's authentic identity to achieve purpose.1:36–9:07 · Guest teaching 2/10 Navigating the Pandemic and Leading with Empathy Guy Raz grounds the discussion in their past pandemic interview and gently presses Kadakia on whether she was truly confident or privately freaking out. Kadakia reframes the idea of going backwards during the pandemic as a chance to find operational efficiency.9:18–14:48 · Guest teaching 4/10 The Mindbody Partnership and ClassPass Acquisition Raz contributes industry context by drawing an analogy between ClassPass/Mindbody and eBay's acquisition of PayPal. Kadakia educates on how integrating Mindbody's backend API allowed ClassPass to build a consumer app without creating SaaS tools from scratch.14:49–18:52 · Guest teaching 3/10 Chasing Impact Beyond ClassPass and Artistic Pursuits Raz brings up Ted Turner's America's Cup championship as an analogy to Kadakia's dual career in dance and business. Kadakia pushes back against the conventional post-exit expectation of building another huge tech company, shifting the focus entirely to chasing artistic impact.18:52–22:11 · Guest teaching 3/10 Introduction to LifePass and Overcoming Constraints Raz introduces the themes and reflective questions in Kadakia's new book LifePass. Kadakia explains how the target audience expanded from twenty-somethings to anyone navigating life transitions and societal constraints.22:22–25:47 · Guest teaching 4/10 The Four-Step LifePass Goal-Setting Method Raz prompts Kadakia to explain her goal-setting method, stepping back to let her teach the four-step framework. Kadakia details why quarterly focus periods outperform annual resolutions and how grounding goals in emotional words prevents misalignment.25:49–28:21 · Guest teaching 2/10 Taking the Leap and Clearing the Noise Raz quotes directly from Kadakia's book regarding the hazards of compartmentalizing identity between corporate and creative pursuits. Kadakia shares practical advice on tuning out societal 'shoulds' and unifying one's authentic identity to achieve purpose.1:36–9:07 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Navigating the Pandemic and Leading with Empathy Guy Raz grounds the discussion in their past pandemic interview and gently presses Kadakia on whether she was truly confident or privately freaking out. Kadakia reframes the idea of going backwards during the pandemic as a chance to find operational efficiency.9:18–14:48 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Mindbody Partnership and ClassPass Acquisition Raz contributes industry context by drawing an analogy between ClassPass/Mindbody and eBay's acquisition of PayPal. Kadakia educates on how integrating Mindbody's backend API allowed ClassPass to build a consumer app without creating SaaS tools from scratch.14:49–18:52 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Chasing Impact Beyond ClassPass and Artistic Pursuits Raz brings up Ted Turner's America's Cup championship as an analogy to Kadakia's dual career in dance and business. Kadakia pushes back against the conventional post-exit expectation of building another huge tech company, shifting the focus entirely to chasing artistic impact.18:52–22:11 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Introduction to LifePass and Overcoming Constraints Raz introduces the themes and reflective questions in Kadakia's new book LifePass. Kadakia explains how the target audience expanded from twenty-somethings to anyone navigating life transitions and societal constraints.22:22–25:47 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Four-Step LifePass Goal-Setting Method Raz prompts Kadakia to explain her goal-setting method, stepping back to let her teach the four-step framework. Kadakia details why quarterly focus periods outperform annual resolutions and how grounding goals in emotional words prevents misalignment.25:49–28:21 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Taking the Leap and Clearing the Noise Raz quotes directly from Kadakia's book regarding the hazards of compartmentalizing identity between corporate and creative pursuits. Kadakia shares practical advice on tuning out societal 'shoulds' and unifying one's authentic identity to achieve purpose.1:36–9:07 · Guy pushing back 2/10 Navigating the Pandemic and Leading with Empathy Guy Raz grounds the discussion in their past pandemic interview and gently presses Kadakia on whether she was truly confident or privately freaking out. Kadakia reframes the idea of going backwards during the pandemic as a chance to find operational efficiency.9:18–14:48 · Guy pushing back 0/10 The Mindbody Partnership and ClassPass Acquisition Raz contributes industry context by drawing an analogy between ClassPass/Mindbody and eBay's acquisition of PayPal. Kadakia educates on how integrating Mindbody's backend API allowed ClassPass to build a consumer app without creating SaaS tools from scratch.14:49–18:52 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Chasing Impact Beyond ClassPass and Artistic Pursuits Raz brings up Ted Turner's America's Cup championship as an analogy to Kadakia's dual career in dance and business. Kadakia pushes back against the conventional post-exit expectation of building another huge tech company, shifting the focus entirely to chasing artistic impact.18:52–22:11 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Introduction to LifePass and Overcoming Constraints Raz introduces the themes and reflective questions in Kadakia's new book LifePass. Kadakia explains how the target audience expanded from twenty-somethings to anyone navigating life transitions and societal constraints.22:22–25:47 · Guy pushing back 0/10 The Four-Step LifePass Goal-Setting Method Raz prompts Kadakia to explain her goal-setting method, stepping back to let her teach the four-step framework. Kadakia details why quarterly focus periods outperform annual resolutions and how grounding goals in emotional words prevents misalignment.25:49–28:21 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Taking the Leap and Clearing the Noise Raz quotes directly from Kadakia's book regarding the hazards of compartmentalizing identity between corporate and creative pursuits. Kadakia shares practical advice on tuning out societal 'shoulds' and unifying one's authentic identity to achieve purpose.

speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Guy 74% · guest 26%0:00 · Guy 74% · guest 26%3:00 · Guy 13.3% · guest 86.7%3:00 · Guy 13.3% · guest 86.7%6:00 · Guy 16.9% · guest 83.1%6:00 · Guy 16.9% · guest 83.1%9:00 · Guy 23.9% · guest 76.1%9:00 · Guy 23.9% · guest 76.1%12:00 · Guy 25.3% · guest 74.7%12:00 · Guy 25.3% · guest 74.7%15:00 · Guy 27.2% · guest 72.8%15:00 · Guy 27.2% · guest 72.8%18:00 · Guy 23.6% · guest 76.4%18:00 · Guy 23.6% · guest 76.4%21:00 · Guy 18.1% · guest 81.9%21:00 · Guy 18.1% · guest 81.9%24:00 · Guy 16.8% · guest 83.2%24:00 · Guy 16.8% · guest 83.2%27:00 · Guy 13.6% · guest 86.4%27:00 · Guy 13.6% · guest 86.4%30:00 · Guy 70.9% · guest 29.1%30:00 · Guy 70.9% · guest 29.1%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 15:20 Rejecting the premise of building 'big'

Kadakia rejects the common Silicon Valley premise that founders must always build something larger than their last exit, asserting that her goal is chasing impact rather than company valuation.

 Hardest push from Guy ▶ 7:05 Raz challenges Kadakia's claimed pandemic calm

Raz gently challenges Kadakia's composed framing of the 2020 crisis, questioning whether she was truly confident or internally freaking out amid existential business uncertainty.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 11:35 Kadakia explains bypassing SaaS to build consumer-first

Kadakia explains how building on Mindbody's API allowed ClassPass to defy standard investor advice, proving that consumer marketplaces did not need to build their own backend software first.

 Guy holds their own ▶ 13:42 Raz compares Mindbody acquisition to PayPal and eBay

Raz displays deep business pattern recognition by connecting ClassPass's journey with Mindbody to PayPal's organic growth and ultimate acquisition by eBay.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicGuy as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementGuy pushing backWhy
Navigating the Pandemic and Leading with Empathy 3212 Guy Raz grounds the discussion in their past pandemic interview and gently presses Kadakia on whether she was truly confident or privately freaking out. Kadakia reframes the idea of going backwards during the pandemic as a chance to find operational efficiency.
The Mindbody Partnership and ClassPass Acquisition 5400 Raz contributes industry context by drawing an analogy between ClassPass/Mindbody and eBay's acquisition of PayPal. Kadakia educates on how integrating Mindbody's backend API allowed ClassPass to build a consumer app without creating SaaS tools from scratch.
Chasing Impact Beyond ClassPass and Artistic Pursuits 4311 Raz brings up Ted Turner's America's Cup championship as an analogy to Kadakia's dual career in dance and business. Kadakia pushes back against the conventional post-exit expectation of building another huge tech company, shifting the focus entirely to chasing artistic impact.
Introduction to LifePass and Overcoming Constraints 2300 Raz introduces the themes and reflective questions in Kadakia's new book LifePass. Kadakia explains how the target audience expanded from twenty-somethings to anyone navigating life transitions and societal constraints.
The Four-Step LifePass Goal-Setting Method 1400 Raz prompts Kadakia to explain her goal-setting method, stepping back to let her teach the four-step framework. Kadakia details why quarterly focus periods outperform annual resolutions and how grounding goals in emotional words prevents misalignment.
Taking the Leap and Clearing the Noise 3200 Raz quotes directly from Kadakia's book regarding the hazards of compartmentalizing identity between corporate and creative pursuits. Kadakia shares practical advice on tuning out societal 'shoulds' and unifying one's authentic identity to achieve purpose.

Statements from this episode (4)

Disclosure
ClassPass expanded into beauty and wellness during the pandemic, says Kadakia
“And then the other one, which actually did stick, which was something a part of something we had actually tried right before the pandemic was we went into beauty and wellness and that actually ended up sticking because what we realized is people were more comf…”
Payal Kadakia May 12, 2022 ▶ 5:01
Opinion
Mindbody acquiring ClassPass was a matter of when, not if, says Kadakia
“So I do believe it was a matter of when, not if, these two companies would come together, and I think given everything that the industry had gone through through the pandemic, we kind of knew that this was the right time to join forces”
Payal Kadakia May 12, 2022 ▶ 13:15
Insight
Founders should not start a company expecting a specific acquirer, says Kadakia
“And on the opposite of that, I would also say, don't start a company thinking it's going to be acquired by this company or that company, right? I think a lot of times people box themselves into that.”
Payal Kadakia May 12, 2022 ▶ 14:31
Insight
Payal Kadakia rejects work-life balance, favoring structured systems instead
“And look, I never believed in the word balance, and I don't think you can have it, but I knew I needed a system that the same way I was able to accomplish every dream I had professionally, I didn't understand why I didn't have that system. Personally.”
Payal Kadakia May 12, 2022 ▶ 23:03
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