Aug 25, 2022 · 41m · how-i-built-this
HIBT Lab! Yolélé: Pierre Thiam
0:00 / 0:00
gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of How I Built This Lab, host Guy Raz speaks with Senegalese chef and entrepreneur Pierre Thiam about his journey from entry-level kitchen worker to founding Yolélé, a food brand dedicated to scaling the ancient, climate-resilient supergrain fonio into a global retail success.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 30.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Guy as informed peer 5.4 Guest teaching 4.4 Guest disagreement 0.3 Guy pushing back 0.0
speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 22:53 Pierre denounces global agricultural monoculture and food dependency
Pierre forcefully criticizes the foolishness of relying on a tiny handful of imported crops like wheat and rice, emphasizing how colonialism dismantled resilient native African foodways.
Hardest push from Guy ▶ 36:38 Raz presses on the difficulty of building mainstream consumer awarenessRaz directly challenges Pierre on how he intends to scale consumer adoption from niche awareness to quinoa-level ubiquity.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 21:55 Pierre details the colonial distortion of Senegalese agriculturePierre educates the audience on how French colonial economic interests imposed peanut monoculture and imported baguettes, marginalizing ancient indigenous grains.
Guy holds their own ▶ 22:40 Raz connects the Ukraine wheat supply shock to global unrestRaz adds sharp geopolitical analysis, linking Pierre's points about wheat reliance directly to ripple effects in countries like Sri Lanka during the Ukraine war.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Guy as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Guy pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Pierre Thiam's Upbringing and Culinary Roots in Dakar | 6 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Guy demonstrates good background knowledge of Senegalese history, referencing Dakar's unique culinary fusion including French, Lebanese, and Vietnamese influences. Pierre validates this and expands with personal details regarding regional micro-climates and gender dynamics in Senegalese cooking. | |
| From Dakar to New York: An Accidental Culinary Path | 4 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Pierre recounts his early years in New York City after being robbed, progressing from dishwasher to prep cook where his chemistry background helped him master culinary emulsions. Raz listens supportively and highlights the serendipity of the transition from chemistry student to chef. | |
| Embracing African Gastronomy and Family Support | 5 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Guy displays knowledge of restaurant kitchen culture ('family meal') and accurately lists West African staple ingredients. Pierre explains the organic progression of introducing Senegalese flavors into New York fine dining and receiving his family's blessing. | |
| Mid-Show Station Break and Upcoming Preview | 6 | 6 | 0 | 0 | The dialogue explores fonio's culinary and agronomic traits. Guy demonstrates expertise by explaining soil aeration and carbon retention, while Pierre educates listeners on fonio's drought tolerance, deep root systems, and low glycemic index. | |
| Colonial Impact on African Diets and Fonio Mission | 7 | 7 | 2 | 0 | Pierre passionately explains how French colonial policies displaced resilient native grains like fonio in favor of peanut monoculture and imported wheat. Guy demonstrates expertise by linking contemporary wheat supply shocks from the Ukraine war to economic crises in developing nations. | |
| Mid-Show Commercial Break and Transition | 5 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Pierre details the operational bottleneck of processing fonio due to its inedible hull and the custom industrial milling machinery developed to solve it. Guy asks focused logistical questions about Dean & DeLuca and scaling supply chains with Whole Foods. | |
| Retail Growth, Community Outreach, and Teranga | 5 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Raz asks how Pierre plans to drive mainstream consumer awareness and retail adoption for an unfamiliar grain. Pierre explains grassroots sampling demos at Whole Foods, social media engagement with diaspora and gluten-free communities, and restaurant menu visibility. |
Statements from this episode (9)
Pierre Thiam: Culinary work in Dakar was culturally restricted to women
“Growing up in Dakar, obviously, food is a big part of the culture. But, you know, it's a gender-based activity. So the kitchen is for women and food was not an option as a profession. I never thought food could be a career.”
African cuisine was absent from New York's 1990s culinary scene
“New York is calling itself the food capital of the world, but Africa is not in this world. I'm like, Hey, no, this is going to be my mission. I'm going to start finding inspiration from that cuisine and bringing it and that I never looked back.”
Fonio is a fast-maturing grain that requires minimal water to grow
“It's like one of the fastest maturing grain that requires very little water. It's rain fed, but it, you know, it just requires the first rain. And after that, even if there was no other rain coming or the rain is inconsistent, like it's the case right now with…”
Pierre Thiam says fonio is gluten-free with a low glycemic index
“Fonyo is a nutrition powerhouse, like you mentioned. It's gluten-free and has a So many properties. One of them being very important is it has, it's caused a low glycemic index.”
Global food system relies dangerously on wheat, rice, soy, and corn
“The limited number of crops we rely on our food system is wheat, rice, soy, and corn. And we ignoring crops that are much more, not only resilient, like for you, and we need to integrate them.”
French colonialism shifted Senegal from rice farming to peanut monoculture
“We even had a rice culture in Senegal, but because of our connection with the French, we started importing broken rice from Vietnam so that Senegalese farmers would focus on growing peanuts that we need for our industries. Colonization was a business. So the F…”
Neglected indigenous African crops require active consumer branding to scale
“There's one thing I got right was I knew it needed to be branded. Those French, they branded their baguettes and that's how we're still eating it. They branded this broken rice to us and now I'm going to brand Fogneau and I'm going to make it Sexy”
Yolélé’s custom milling equipment reduced fonio processing waste by fifty percent
“Now we not only eliminated the waste because at this stage of Fogno Processing. We still had close to 50% of waste, which is crazy. And now with the machine, they design a machine that not only eliminates that waste, but it really is also processing at a much …”