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Feb 23, 2023 · 40m · how-i-built-this

HIBT Lab! Boom Supersonic: Blake Scholl

Blake Scholl · 24m spoken Guy Raz · 11m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of How I Built This Lab, Guy Raz interviews Blake Scholl, founder and CEO of Boom Supersonic, about his mission to revive commercial supersonic flight through modern aerodynamics, first-principles engineering, and sustainable aviation fuel. Scholl details the development of the XB-1 prototype and the flagship Overture jetliner, outlining a path toward accessible, net-zero high-speed air travel by 2029.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 32.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Guy as informed peer 4.1 Guest teaching 5.1 Guest disagreement 1.8 Guy pushing back 1.6
05100:0015:0030:001:27–8:50 · Guy as informed peer 4/10 Early Career at Amazon and Riding Segways with Jeff Bezos Raz explores Scholl's career trajectory through Amazon, Pelago, and Groupon, demonstrating solid background research on Andrew Mason and Groupon's valuation drop. Scholl shares operational reflections and lessons learned in a collaborative, reflective tone.8:52–13:26 · Guy as informed peer 5/10 The Paradox of Commercial Aviation Innovation Raz cites airline innovators like Herb Kelleher and David Neeleman to contextualize 50 years of stagnation in aircraft tech. Scholl provides a compelling thesis distinguishing founder-led capability leaps from executive-led incremental optimization.13:27–19:09 · Guy as informed peer 3/10 Mid-Roll Break and Program Re-Introduction Scholl rejects conventional industry wisdom that supersonic flight cannot be profitable, detailing how he validated his quantitative models with a Stanford professor. Raz acts as an intrigued listener, giving Scholl space to lay out the business case.19:10–23:27 · Guy as informed peer 4/10 Building the Team and Designing the Airplane Digitally Raz probes how Scholl managed to build an aerospace team without formal aeronautical engineering training, drawing analogies to RJ Scaringe and Elon Musk. Scholl explains first-principles hiring and the contrast between loosely coupled software and tightly integrated aircraft design.23:28–27:38 · Guy as informed peer 4/10 Developing the XB-1 Prototype Raz presses on the fact that the XB-1 prototype missed its planned 2021 test flight timeline. Scholl openly concedes early naivete and justifies the delay through rigorous safety testing for piloted supersonic flight.27:39–31:02 · Guy as informed peer 4/10 The Overture Aircraft: Specs, Pricing, and Range Raz examines the unit economics, passenger capacity, and transoceanic routing of Overture relative to Concorde. Scholl details how 65-seat capacity and $5,000 business class fare equivalence make Pacific routes viable with brief refueling stops.31:03–34:30 · Guy as informed peer 4/10 Environmental Sustainability and 100% Sustainable Aviation Fuel Raz questions the environmental feasibility of supersonic air travel and net-zero claims. Scholl explains why batteries are ruled out due to weight and outlines the mechanics of power-to-liquid synthetic fuels and 100% SAF compatibility.34:31–39:15 · Guy as informed peer 5/10 Sonic Booms, Airport Noise, and Production Timeline Raz asks whether Boom will face municipal resistance and sonic boom restrictions city-by-city, and challenges the lengthy timeline to commercial service. Scholl corrects the premise by clarifying that Overture meets standard subsonic airport noise thresholds and operates within Boeing 777 gate footprints.1:27–8:50 · Guest teaching 3/10 Early Career at Amazon and Riding Segways with Jeff Bezos Raz explores Scholl's career trajectory through Amazon, Pelago, and Groupon, demonstrating solid background research on Andrew Mason and Groupon's valuation drop. Scholl shares operational reflections and lessons learned in a collaborative, reflective tone.8:52–13:26 · Guest teaching 6/10 The Paradox of Commercial Aviation Innovation Raz cites airline innovators like Herb Kelleher and David Neeleman to contextualize 50 years of stagnation in aircraft tech. Scholl provides a compelling thesis distinguishing founder-led capability leaps from executive-led incremental optimization.13:27–19:09 · Guest teaching 6/10 Mid-Roll Break and Program Re-Introduction Scholl rejects conventional industry wisdom that supersonic flight cannot be profitable, detailing how he validated his quantitative models with a Stanford professor. Raz acts as an intrigued listener, giving Scholl space to lay out the business case.19:10–23:27 · Guest teaching 5/10 Building the Team and Designing the Airplane Digitally Raz probes how Scholl managed to build an aerospace team without formal aeronautical engineering training, drawing analogies to RJ Scaringe and Elon Musk. Scholl explains first-principles hiring and the contrast between loosely coupled software and tightly integrated aircraft design.23:28–27:38 · Guest teaching 4/10 Developing the XB-1 Prototype Raz presses on the fact that the XB-1 prototype missed its planned 2021 test flight timeline. Scholl openly concedes early naivete and justifies the delay through rigorous safety testing for piloted supersonic flight.27:39–31:02 · Guest teaching 5/10 The Overture Aircraft: Specs, Pricing, and Range Raz examines the unit economics, passenger capacity, and transoceanic routing of Overture relative to Concorde. Scholl details how 65-seat capacity and $5,000 business class fare equivalence make Pacific routes viable with brief refueling stops.31:03–34:30 · Guest teaching 6/10 Environmental Sustainability and 100% Sustainable Aviation Fuel Raz questions the environmental feasibility of supersonic air travel and net-zero claims. Scholl explains why batteries are ruled out due to weight and outlines the mechanics of power-to-liquid synthetic fuels and 100% SAF compatibility.34:31–39:15 · Guest teaching 6/10 Sonic Booms, Airport Noise, and Production Timeline Raz asks whether Boom will face municipal resistance and sonic boom restrictions city-by-city, and challenges the lengthy timeline to commercial service. Scholl corrects the premise by clarifying that Overture meets standard subsonic airport noise thresholds and operates within Boeing 777 gate footprints.1:27–8:50 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Early Career at Amazon and Riding Segways with Jeff Bezos Raz explores Scholl's career trajectory through Amazon, Pelago, and Groupon, demonstrating solid background research on Andrew Mason and Groupon's valuation drop. Scholl shares operational reflections and lessons learned in a collaborative, reflective tone.8:52–13:26 · Guest disagreement 2/10 The Paradox of Commercial Aviation Innovation Raz cites airline innovators like Herb Kelleher and David Neeleman to contextualize 50 years of stagnation in aircraft tech. Scholl provides a compelling thesis distinguishing founder-led capability leaps from executive-led incremental optimization.13:27–19:09 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Mid-Roll Break and Program Re-Introduction Scholl rejects conventional industry wisdom that supersonic flight cannot be profitable, detailing how he validated his quantitative models with a Stanford professor. Raz acts as an intrigued listener, giving Scholl space to lay out the business case.19:10–23:27 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Building the Team and Designing the Airplane Digitally Raz probes how Scholl managed to build an aerospace team without formal aeronautical engineering training, drawing analogies to RJ Scaringe and Elon Musk. Scholl explains first-principles hiring and the contrast between loosely coupled software and tightly integrated aircraft design.23:28–27:38 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Developing the XB-1 Prototype Raz presses on the fact that the XB-1 prototype missed its planned 2021 test flight timeline. Scholl openly concedes early naivete and justifies the delay through rigorous safety testing for piloted supersonic flight.27:39–31:02 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Overture Aircraft: Specs, Pricing, and Range Raz examines the unit economics, passenger capacity, and transoceanic routing of Overture relative to Concorde. Scholl details how 65-seat capacity and $5,000 business class fare equivalence make Pacific routes viable with brief refueling stops.31:03–34:30 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Environmental Sustainability and 100% Sustainable Aviation Fuel Raz questions the environmental feasibility of supersonic air travel and net-zero claims. Scholl explains why batteries are ruled out due to weight and outlines the mechanics of power-to-liquid synthetic fuels and 100% SAF compatibility.34:31–39:15 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Sonic Booms, Airport Noise, and Production Timeline Raz asks whether Boom will face municipal resistance and sonic boom restrictions city-by-city, and challenges the lengthy timeline to commercial service. Scholl corrects the premise by clarifying that Overture meets standard subsonic airport noise thresholds and operates within Boeing 777 gate footprints.1:27–8:50 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Early Career at Amazon and Riding Segways with Jeff Bezos Raz explores Scholl's career trajectory through Amazon, Pelago, and Groupon, demonstrating solid background research on Andrew Mason and Groupon's valuation drop. Scholl shares operational reflections and lessons learned in a collaborative, reflective tone.8:52–13:26 · Guy pushing back 1/10 The Paradox of Commercial Aviation Innovation Raz cites airline innovators like Herb Kelleher and David Neeleman to contextualize 50 years of stagnation in aircraft tech. Scholl provides a compelling thesis distinguishing founder-led capability leaps from executive-led incremental optimization.13:27–19:09 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Mid-Roll Break and Program Re-Introduction Scholl rejects conventional industry wisdom that supersonic flight cannot be profitable, detailing how he validated his quantitative models with a Stanford professor. Raz acts as an intrigued listener, giving Scholl space to lay out the business case.19:10–23:27 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Building the Team and Designing the Airplane Digitally Raz probes how Scholl managed to build an aerospace team without formal aeronautical engineering training, drawing analogies to RJ Scaringe and Elon Musk. Scholl explains first-principles hiring and the contrast between loosely coupled software and tightly integrated aircraft design.23:28–27:38 · Guy pushing back 3/10 Developing the XB-1 Prototype Raz presses on the fact that the XB-1 prototype missed its planned 2021 test flight timeline. Scholl openly concedes early naivete and justifies the delay through rigorous safety testing for piloted supersonic flight.27:39–31:02 · Guy pushing back 1/10 The Overture Aircraft: Specs, Pricing, and Range Raz examines the unit economics, passenger capacity, and transoceanic routing of Overture relative to Concorde. Scholl details how 65-seat capacity and $5,000 business class fare equivalence make Pacific routes viable with brief refueling stops.31:03–34:30 · Guy pushing back 2/10 Environmental Sustainability and 100% Sustainable Aviation Fuel Raz questions the environmental feasibility of supersonic air travel and net-zero claims. Scholl explains why batteries are ruled out due to weight and outlines the mechanics of power-to-liquid synthetic fuels and 100% SAF compatibility.34:31–39:15 · Guy pushing back 3/10 Sonic Booms, Airport Noise, and Production Timeline Raz asks whether Boom will face municipal resistance and sonic boom restrictions city-by-city, and challenges the lengthy timeline to commercial service. Scholl corrects the premise by clarifying that Overture meets standard subsonic airport noise thresholds and operates within Boeing 777 gate footprints.

speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Guy 59.6% · guest 40.4%0:00 · Guy 59.6% · guest 40.4%3:00 · Guy 37.7% · guest 62.3%3:00 · Guy 37.7% · guest 62.3%6:00 · Guy 25.4% · guest 74.6%6:00 · Guy 25.4% · guest 74.6%9:00 · Guy 36.3% · guest 63.7%9:00 · Guy 36.3% · guest 63.7%12:00 · Guy 30.3% · guest 69.7%12:00 · Guy 30.3% · guest 69.7%15:00 · Guy 7.3% · guest 92.7%15:00 · Guy 7.3% · guest 92.7%18:00 · Guy 34% · guest 66%18:00 · Guy 34% · guest 66%21:00 · Guy 30.8% · guest 69.2%21:00 · Guy 30.8% · guest 69.2%24:00 · Guy 27.9% · guest 72.1%24:00 · Guy 27.9% · guest 72.1%27:00 · Guy 30.1% · guest 69.9%27:00 · Guy 30.1% · guest 69.9%30:00 · Guy 11.7% · guest 88.3%30:00 · Guy 11.7% · guest 88.3%33:00 · Guy 34.3% · guest 65.7%33:00 · Guy 34.3% · guest 65.7%36:00 · Guy 38.5% · guest 61.5%36:00 · Guy 38.5% · guest 61.5%39:00 · Guy 76.9% · guest 23.1%39:00 · Guy 76.9% · guest 23.1%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 15:15 Scholl dismantles stale conventional wisdom on supersonic viability

Scholl forcefully dismisses industry consensus, arguing that standard explanations for supersonic flight's failure relied on flawed qualitative answers to quantitative problems.

 Hardest push from Guy ▶ 25:05 Raz presses on missed test flight timelines

Raz directly confronts Scholl with Boom's failure to meet its public 2021 test flight target, prompting an explanation of technical bottlenecks.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 12:20 Scholl contrasts founder-led innovation with executive optimization

Scholl reframes the entire history of commercial aviation by explaining how post-founder corporate leadership defaulted to incremental optimization, using the Boeing 707 and 787 comparison.

 Guy holds their own ▶ 11:13 Raz contextualizes business model innovation vs airframe tech

Raz demonstrates industry domain knowledge by contrasting operational innovators like Herb Kelleher and David Neeleman against half a century of stagnant airframe design.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicGuy as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementGuy pushing backWhy
Early Career at Amazon and Riding Segways with Jeff Bezos 4311 Raz explores Scholl's career trajectory through Amazon, Pelago, and Groupon, demonstrating solid background research on Andrew Mason and Groupon's valuation drop. Scholl shares operational reflections and lessons learned in a collaborative, reflective tone.
The Paradox of Commercial Aviation Innovation 5621 Raz cites airline innovators like Herb Kelleher and David Neeleman to contextualize 50 years of stagnation in aircraft tech. Scholl provides a compelling thesis distinguishing founder-led capability leaps from executive-led incremental optimization.
Mid-Roll Break and Program Re-Introduction 3631 Scholl rejects conventional industry wisdom that supersonic flight cannot be profitable, detailing how he validated his quantitative models with a Stanford professor. Raz acts as an intrigued listener, giving Scholl space to lay out the business case.
Building the Team and Designing the Airplane Digitally 4511 Raz probes how Scholl managed to build an aerospace team without formal aeronautical engineering training, drawing analogies to RJ Scaringe and Elon Musk. Scholl explains first-principles hiring and the contrast between loosely coupled software and tightly integrated aircraft design.
Developing the XB-1 Prototype 4413 Raz presses on the fact that the XB-1 prototype missed its planned 2021 test flight timeline. Scholl openly concedes early naivete and justifies the delay through rigorous safety testing for piloted supersonic flight.
The Overture Aircraft: Specs, Pricing, and Range 4511 Raz examines the unit economics, passenger capacity, and transoceanic routing of Overture relative to Concorde. Scholl details how 65-seat capacity and $5,000 business class fare equivalence make Pacific routes viable with brief refueling stops.
Environmental Sustainability and 100% Sustainable Aviation Fuel 4622 Raz questions the environmental feasibility of supersonic air travel and net-zero claims. Scholl explains why batteries are ruled out due to weight and outlines the mechanics of power-to-liquid synthetic fuels and 100% SAF compatibility.
Sonic Booms, Airport Noise, and Production Timeline 5633 Raz asks whether Boom will face municipal resistance and sonic boom restrictions city-by-city, and challenges the lengthy timeline to commercial service. Scholl corrects the premise by clarifying that Overture meets standard subsonic airport noise thresholds and operates within Boeing 777 gate footprints.

Statements from this episode (13)

Assertion Supported
Scholl: Amazon was the exclusive launch retailer for the Segway
“Amazon back then was the exclusive retailer for the Segway.”
Blake Scholl Feb 23, 2023 ▶ 1:54
Opinion
Scholl: Groupon had $100B potential but IPO'd before operational readiness
“My synthesis of Groupon is it's a story of massively lost potential. In, in, in my view, that company had all the potential to be worth 30 or a hundred billion dollars and really to have earned it. But they made kind of one critical mistake, which was taking t…”
Blake Scholl Feb 23, 2023 ▶ 6:08
Insight
Scholl: Successor executives optimize companies instead of pushing product boundaries
“Founder led companies tend to push what the product can do. And then when the founders retire, what happens in those companies? Well, they promote the most successful executive. That reported to them who by definition is really different than the founder becau…”
Blake Scholl Feb 23, 2023 ▶ 12:43
Insight
Scholl: Airplanes are tightly coupled machines, unlike software architecture
“Great software is loosely coupled, like one piece of our code, if we change it, shouldn't affect what another piece of our code does. But great airplanes are very tightly coupled, highly integrated machines.”
Blake Scholl Feb 23, 2023 ▶ 22:08
Assertion Supported
Scholl: XB-1 is the first independently developed supersonic jet in history
“This is the first independently developed supersonic jet ever. Like previously it's been governance and military.”
Blake Scholl Feb 23, 2023 ▶ 24:09
Disclosure
Scholl: Boom built XB-1 demonstrator to make mistakes before Overture
“We did XB one because we knew we would make mistakes and we wanted to make the mistakes on a small, simpler airplane before we went and did that the big airplane, because those learnings would be what would enable the big airplane overture to be a success.”
Blake Scholl Feb 23, 2023 ▶ 27:20
Prediction Open · timeframe Feb 2028
Scholl: Overture is designed to be profitable at $5,000 fares
“And then for Overture One, we've said, look, we want to focus on business class. And so we've designed that airplane such that it will be profitable for airlines at fares a quarter of what was charged on Concorde.”
Blake Scholl Feb 23, 2023 ▶ 28:58
Prediction Open · timeframe Feb 2028
Scholl: Overture will fly Tokyo to Seattle in 4.5 hours
“Just about the longest non-stop route would be Tokyo to Seattle. In four and a half hours, and just pause on that for a second, four and a half hours across the Pacific.”
Blake Scholl Feb 23, 2023 ▶ 30:01
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Scholl: All long-haul airplanes will ultimately adopt synthetic fuel
“This is what I think ultimately every long-haul airplane is going to do. This is the way we decarbonize long-haul air travel.”
Blake Scholl Feb 23, 2023 ▶ 33:23
Assertion Open · timeframe Feb 2026
Scholl: Overture meets latest subsonic noise standards
“So this meets the same most stringent noise standards that apply to latest generation subsonic airplanes.”
Blake Scholl Feb 23, 2023 ▶ 35:33
Prediction Partly held up
Scholl: Boom will produce first Overture by 2026, test in 2027
“We're breaking ground on the plant to build it, and we will be in production by the end of 24. We'll have the first airplane in 26, and we'll start flight testing it in 27.”
Blake Scholl Feb 23, 2023 ▶ 37:04
Prediction Open · timeframe Dec 2029
Scholl: Boom aims for Overture passenger certification by end of 2029
“And our goal is to spend two years in that flight test campaign and then be certified to carry passengers by the end of 2029.”
Blake Scholl Feb 23, 2023 ▶ 37:20
Assertion Supported
Scholl: Boom secured major airline orders with nonrefundable deposits
“We've already built history's first independently developed supersonic jet. We've already gotten major airlines to place orders and make nonrefundable deposits.”
Blake Scholl Feb 23, 2023 ▶ 38:59
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