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May 18, 2023 · 44m · how-i-built-this

HIBT Lab! Cotopaxi: Davis Smith

Davis Smith · 26m spoken Guy Raz · 14m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of How I Built This Lab, Cotopaxi founder Davis Smith speaks with Guy Raz about steering his outdoor apparel brand through pandemic uncertainties, scaling a remote-first B-Corp, and his decision to step down as CEO to complete a three-year faith mission in Brazil.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 34.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Guy as informed peer 2.3 Guest teaching 1.3 Guest disagreement 0.0 Guy pushing back 1.1
05100:0015:0030:001:28–6:24 · Guy as informed peer 2/10 Surviving COVID-19 and Finding Growth Through Face Masks Guy Raz revisits their 2020 interview and prompts Davis Smith to detail how Cotopaxi navigated the pandemic. Smith collaboratively explains how face masks and outdoor day packs saved the company.6:25–14:36 · Guy as informed peer 3/10 Building Culture and Innovation in a Remote-First Workplace Guy pushes on the downsides of remote work, including empty office costs, lack of spontaneous innovation, and mentorship hurdles. Smith politely details their intentional solutions like virtual hikes and innovation tournaments.14:38–21:27 · Guy as informed peer 1/10 Midroll Break: Teasing Davis Smith's Reconnection with Edgar Guy asks Smith about his emotional reconnection with Edgar in Cusco, Peru. Smith shares an extended personal narrative without friction.21:28–29:23 · Guy as informed peer 4/10 B-Corp Philosophy, Impact Metrics, and Manufacturing Challenges Raz asks pointed questions regarding B-Corp skepticism, greenwashing, manufacturing waste from growth, and the unintended consequences seen in models like TOMS Shoes. Smith thoughtfully breaks down Cotopaxi's 3 R's and impact discipline.29:27–31:35 · Guy as informed peer 1/10 Midroll Break: Teasing Leadership Changes and Personal History Raz gently asks about Smith's estranged relationship with his cousin and former co-founder Kimball. Smith reflects with vulnerability.31:37–39:26 · Guy as informed peer 2/10 Stepping Down as CEO for a Three-Year Faith Mission Raz inquires about Smith's decision to step down as CEO for a 3-year unpaid LDS mission in Brazil. Smith explains the values-driven rationale and his transition to chairman.39:34–43:43 · Guy as informed peer 3/10 Reimagining Capitalism Through Broad Equity and Conscious Capital Raz asks how Smith views long-term legacy in comparison to Yvon Chouinard's Patagonia trust, and how capitalism can address inequality. Smith advocates for broad employee equity and mission-aligned capital.1:28–6:24 · Guest teaching 1/10 Surviving COVID-19 and Finding Growth Through Face Masks Guy Raz revisits their 2020 interview and prompts Davis Smith to detail how Cotopaxi navigated the pandemic. Smith collaboratively explains how face masks and outdoor day packs saved the company.6:25–14:36 · Guest teaching 2/10 Building Culture and Innovation in a Remote-First Workplace Guy pushes on the downsides of remote work, including empty office costs, lack of spontaneous innovation, and mentorship hurdles. Smith politely details their intentional solutions like virtual hikes and innovation tournaments.14:38–21:27 · Guest teaching 1/10 Midroll Break: Teasing Davis Smith's Reconnection with Edgar Guy asks Smith about his emotional reconnection with Edgar in Cusco, Peru. Smith shares an extended personal narrative without friction.21:28–29:23 · Guest teaching 3/10 B-Corp Philosophy, Impact Metrics, and Manufacturing Challenges Raz asks pointed questions regarding B-Corp skepticism, greenwashing, manufacturing waste from growth, and the unintended consequences seen in models like TOMS Shoes. Smith thoughtfully breaks down Cotopaxi's 3 R's and impact discipline.29:27–31:35 · Guest teaching 0/10 Midroll Break: Teasing Leadership Changes and Personal History Raz gently asks about Smith's estranged relationship with his cousin and former co-founder Kimball. Smith reflects with vulnerability.31:37–39:26 · Guest teaching 1/10 Stepping Down as CEO for a Three-Year Faith Mission Raz inquires about Smith's decision to step down as CEO for a 3-year unpaid LDS mission in Brazil. Smith explains the values-driven rationale and his transition to chairman.39:34–43:43 · Guest teaching 1/10 Reimagining Capitalism Through Broad Equity and Conscious Capital Raz asks how Smith views long-term legacy in comparison to Yvon Chouinard's Patagonia trust, and how capitalism can address inequality. Smith advocates for broad employee equity and mission-aligned capital.1:28–6:24 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Surviving COVID-19 and Finding Growth Through Face Masks Guy Raz revisits their 2020 interview and prompts Davis Smith to detail how Cotopaxi navigated the pandemic. Smith collaboratively explains how face masks and outdoor day packs saved the company.6:25–14:36 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Building Culture and Innovation in a Remote-First Workplace Guy pushes on the downsides of remote work, including empty office costs, lack of spontaneous innovation, and mentorship hurdles. Smith politely details their intentional solutions like virtual hikes and innovation tournaments.14:38–21:27 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Midroll Break: Teasing Davis Smith's Reconnection with Edgar Guy asks Smith about his emotional reconnection with Edgar in Cusco, Peru. Smith shares an extended personal narrative without friction.21:28–29:23 · Guest disagreement 0/10 B-Corp Philosophy, Impact Metrics, and Manufacturing Challenges Raz asks pointed questions regarding B-Corp skepticism, greenwashing, manufacturing waste from growth, and the unintended consequences seen in models like TOMS Shoes. Smith thoughtfully breaks down Cotopaxi's 3 R's and impact discipline.29:27–31:35 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Midroll Break: Teasing Leadership Changes and Personal History Raz gently asks about Smith's estranged relationship with his cousin and former co-founder Kimball. Smith reflects with vulnerability.31:37–39:26 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Stepping Down as CEO for a Three-Year Faith Mission Raz inquires about Smith's decision to step down as CEO for a 3-year unpaid LDS mission in Brazil. Smith explains the values-driven rationale and his transition to chairman.39:34–43:43 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Reimagining Capitalism Through Broad Equity and Conscious Capital Raz asks how Smith views long-term legacy in comparison to Yvon Chouinard's Patagonia trust, and how capitalism can address inequality. Smith advocates for broad employee equity and mission-aligned capital.1:28–6:24 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Surviving COVID-19 and Finding Growth Through Face Masks Guy Raz revisits their 2020 interview and prompts Davis Smith to detail how Cotopaxi navigated the pandemic. Smith collaboratively explains how face masks and outdoor day packs saved the company.6:25–14:36 · Guy pushing back 2/10 Building Culture and Innovation in a Remote-First Workplace Guy pushes on the downsides of remote work, including empty office costs, lack of spontaneous innovation, and mentorship hurdles. Smith politely details their intentional solutions like virtual hikes and innovation tournaments.14:38–21:27 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Midroll Break: Teasing Davis Smith's Reconnection with Edgar Guy asks Smith about his emotional reconnection with Edgar in Cusco, Peru. Smith shares an extended personal narrative without friction.21:28–29:23 · Guy pushing back 3/10 B-Corp Philosophy, Impact Metrics, and Manufacturing Challenges Raz asks pointed questions regarding B-Corp skepticism, greenwashing, manufacturing waste from growth, and the unintended consequences seen in models like TOMS Shoes. Smith thoughtfully breaks down Cotopaxi's 3 R's and impact discipline.29:27–31:35 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Midroll Break: Teasing Leadership Changes and Personal History Raz gently asks about Smith's estranged relationship with his cousin and former co-founder Kimball. Smith reflects with vulnerability.31:37–39:26 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Stepping Down as CEO for a Three-Year Faith Mission Raz inquires about Smith's decision to step down as CEO for a 3-year unpaid LDS mission in Brazil. Smith explains the values-driven rationale and his transition to chairman.39:34–43:43 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Reimagining Capitalism Through Broad Equity and Conscious Capital Raz asks how Smith views long-term legacy in comparison to Yvon Chouinard's Patagonia trust, and how capitalism can address inequality. Smith advocates for broad employee equity and mission-aligned capital.

speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Guy 77.7% · guest 22.3%0:00 · Guy 77.7% · guest 22.3%3:00 · Guy 19.7% · guest 80.3%3:00 · Guy 19.7% · guest 80.3%6:00 · Guy 37.1% · guest 62.9%6:00 · Guy 37.1% · guest 62.9%9:00 · Guy 32.4% · guest 67.6%9:00 · Guy 32.4% · guest 67.6%12:00 · Guy 38.1% · guest 61.9%12:00 · Guy 38.1% · guest 61.9%15:00 · Guy 30.7% · guest 69.3%15:00 · Guy 30.7% · guest 69.3%18:00 · Guy 0% · guest 100%18:00 · Guy 0% · guest 100%21:00 · Guy 44.2% · guest 55.8%21:00 · Guy 44.2% · guest 55.8%24:00 · Guy 43.5% · guest 56.5%24:00 · Guy 43.5% · guest 56.5%27:00 · Guy 25.8% · guest 74.2%27:00 · Guy 25.8% · guest 74.2%30:00 · Guy 48.7% · guest 51.3%30:00 · Guy 48.7% · guest 51.3%33:00 · Guy 18.2% · guest 81.8%33:00 · Guy 18.2% · guest 81.8%36:00 · Guy 26% · guest 74%36:00 · Guy 26% · guest 74%39:00 · Guy 26.9% · guest 73.1%39:00 · Guy 26.9% · guest 73.1%42:00 · Guy 54.7% · guest 45.3%42:00 · Guy 54.7% · guest 45.3%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 28:40 Smith rejects buy-one-give-one philanthropy

Smith firmly rejects the simplistic buy-one-give-one model popularized by early social enterprises, explaining it fails to solve underlying systemic poverty.

 Hardest push from Guy ▶ 21:40 Raz questions B-Corp revenue donation thresholds

Guy presses on public skepticism around B-Corps, pointing out that donating one percent of revenue can be perceived as insubstantial or greenwashing.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 27:45 Smith on the necessity of impact measurement

Smith illustrates how unmonitored philanthropic cash gifts can be ineffective, sharing how Cotopaxi's Chief Impact Officer instituted rigorous metric tracking.

 Guy holds their own ▶ 26:05 Raz cites TOMS Shoes unintended market harm

Raz demonstrates industry depth by citing how the one-for-one donation model inadvertently disrupted local shoe economies in South America.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicGuy as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementGuy pushing backWhy
Surviving COVID-19 and Finding Growth Through Face Masks 2101 Guy Raz revisits their 2020 interview and prompts Davis Smith to detail how Cotopaxi navigated the pandemic. Smith collaboratively explains how face masks and outdoor day packs saved the company.
Building Culture and Innovation in a Remote-First Workplace 3202 Guy pushes on the downsides of remote work, including empty office costs, lack of spontaneous innovation, and mentorship hurdles. Smith politely details their intentional solutions like virtual hikes and innovation tournaments.
Midroll Break: Teasing Davis Smith's Reconnection with Edgar 1100 Guy asks Smith about his emotional reconnection with Edgar in Cusco, Peru. Smith shares an extended personal narrative without friction.
B-Corp Philosophy, Impact Metrics, and Manufacturing Challenges 4303 Raz asks pointed questions regarding B-Corp skepticism, greenwashing, manufacturing waste from growth, and the unintended consequences seen in models like TOMS Shoes. Smith thoughtfully breaks down Cotopaxi's 3 R's and impact discipline.
Midroll Break: Teasing Leadership Changes and Personal History 1000 Raz gently asks about Smith's estranged relationship with his cousin and former co-founder Kimball. Smith reflects with vulnerability.
Stepping Down as CEO for a Three-Year Faith Mission 2101 Raz inquires about Smith's decision to step down as CEO for a 3-year unpaid LDS mission in Brazil. Smith explains the values-driven rationale and his transition to chairman.
Reimagining Capitalism Through Broad Equity and Conscious Capital 3101 Raz asks how Smith views long-term legacy in comparison to Yvon Chouinard's Patagonia trust, and how capitalism can address inequality. Smith advocates for broad employee equity and mission-aligned capital.

Statements from this episode (9)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Cotopaxi avoided 2020 layoffs via temporary pay cuts repaid with bonuses
“Instead of doing layoffs, we decided to cut our executive salaries in a pretty significant way, and we cut everyone's pay by 10% for three months, and then we cut it down to five percent for the rest of the year, and then by the end of the year, we ended up gi…”
Davis Smith May 18, 2023 ▶ 3:36
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Cotopaxi reached profitability in 2020 and grew revenue 90% in 2022
“We ended up having our first profitable year in 2020, and it was significantly profitable. And it allowed us to pay those bonuses to our team. And then in 20, 21, we grew a little over 60%. And then in 20, 22, we grew over 90, about 90%.”
Davis Smith May 18, 2023 ▶ 5:19
Disclosure
Smith: Cotopaxi decided to transition to remote-first forever in August 2020
“And all of a sudden, you know, in August of twenty-twenty, we made the decision, we're remote first forever.”
Davis Smith May 18, 2023 ▶ 8:10
Assertion Supported
Cotopaxi hired former Eddie Bauer CEO Damien Huang as president in 2022
“We just hired the CEO of Eddie Bauer, joined our team last year as the president, Damien Wong.”
Davis Smith May 18, 2023 ▶ 9:32
Assertion Supported
Cotopaxi has aided 3.8 million people in poverty over nine years
“Over the history of our business, the last almost nine years, we've helped and aided 3.8 million people living in poverty through our efforts.”
Davis Smith May 18, 2023 ▶ 23:05
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Bain Capital tied Cotopaxi executive bonuses to social impact metrics
“The first thing that they did was they tied our bonuses, our compensation as leaders in the company to our impact work.”
Davis Smith May 18, 2023 ▶ 24:40
Assertion Supported
Cotopaxi made 97% of products from recycled or remnant materials in 2022
“Last year, 97% of all of our products that we sold were made of the three, one of the three R's.”
Davis Smith May 18, 2023 ▶ 25:11
Disclosure
Davis Smith lost close relationship with cousin after co-founding baby.com.br
“Kimball and I mean, we were like brothers. There's no other way to say it. I mean, we did everything together. We, you know, we'd built homes on the same street. We went to business school at the same time. We vacationed together. And honestly, it's one of the…”
Davis Smith May 18, 2023 ▶ 30:30
Disclosure
Davis Smith will retain chairman role during three-year church mission
“I'm going to be joining the board meetings. I'm going to be moving into a chairman role. Every quarter I'm going to do a meeting with all new employees, which I love doing this currently. I do it actually currently I do it every month, but all new employees I …”
Davis Smith May 18, 2023 ▶ 37:10
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