Jun 15, 2023 · 42m · how-i-built-this
Saving the f#$%ing rainforests with Shara Ticku of C16 Biosciences
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
Guy Raz interviews Shara Ticku, co-founder and CEO of C16 Biosciences, on creating a sustainable, yeast-derived alternative to palm oil to eliminate tropical deforestation. The episode explores how the startup evolved from scrappy DIY fermentation experiments to a gross-margin positive biomanufacturing company disrupting personal care and food supply chains.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 37.4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Guy as informed peer 3.5 Guest teaching 4.1 Guest disagreement 0.6 Guy pushing back 0.9
speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 34:55 Reframing consumer taste vs functional fats
Ticku firmly rejects Raz's premise that alternative oils suffer from noticeable consumer drop-off like chickpea pasta, arguing palm oil is a neutral functional base where synthetic chemistry can outperform nature.
Hardest push from Guy ▶ 34:01 Raz's chickpea pasta skeptic challengeRaz asks Ticku to take off her founder hat and put on a critic's hat, pressing her on whether their product is genuinely undetectable or an inferior substitute.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 9:13 Fatty acid melting profile explanationTicku provides an in-depth explanation of palm oil's unique split between saturated and unsaturated fatty acids, demonstrating why substitute vegetable oils consistently fail.
Guy holds their own ▶ 16:00 Aviation sector carbon benchmarkRaz demonstrates strong research by citing precise carbon emission figures showing Indonesian and Malaysian palm oil deforestation exceeded global aviation emissions.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Guy as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Guy pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Experiencing Singapore's Toxic Palm Oil Burning Season | 2 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Raz acts as an empathetic interviewer while Ticku recounts her firsthand encounter with toxic burning season in Singapore. The dynamic is purely collaborative and narrative-driven. | |
| The Chemistry and Explosive Market Growth of Palm Oil | 5 | 5 | 0 | 1 | Raz cites specific production statistics comparing 1970 to present-day volumes. Ticku elaborates on the precise fatty acid chemistry explaining palm oil's unique melting profile. | |
| The Ecological Catastrophe of Equatorial Palm Cultivation | 3 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Ticku educates Raz on the strict equatorial geographic constraint of palm oil trees and peatland destruction. Raz interjects to validate corporate CPG commitments. | |
| Mid-Episode Break and Commercial Interlude One | 4 | 5 | 1 | 1 | Raz cites data comparing palm oil deforestation emissions to global aviation and asks if certified sustainable palm oil is legitimate. Ticku clarifies that under 20% is sustainable and supply chains are virtually impossible to trace. | |
| Scrappy Fermentation Trials and Discovering Oleaginous Yeast | 4 | 4 | 1 | 0 | Raz draws a parallel to Impossible Foods' leghemoglobin fermentation. Ticku politely distinguishes C16's approach of leveraging naturally oleaginous yeast rather than genetic insertion. | |
| Y Combinator, Porch Brewing, and Securing Seed Capital | 2 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Raz prompts Ticku on the company name and fundraising journey. Ticku explains palmitic acid (C16) and the rapid four-million-dollar Y Combinator seed round. | |
| Mid-Episode Break and Commercial Interlude Two | 3 | 4 | 1 | 2 | Raz presses Ticku on why they targeted the personal care sector rather than the much larger food sector. Ticku counters conventional wisdom by detailing the high margins, speed to market, and regulatory hurdles of food. | |
| Launching the Protest Brand and Inbound B2B Pipeline | 3 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Raz questions the brand strategy of launching a consumer-facing product when the core model is B2B. Ticku explains the protest launch mechanics and how it generated inbound CPG interest. | |
| Functional Parity, Ingredient Customization, and Profitability Pathways | 5 | 5 | 2 | 4 | Raz plays devil's advocate using the chickpea pasta analogy to question whether synthetic palm oil offers true functional parity. Ticku reframes the issue, explaining palm oil is an unbranded functional fat where biotechnology can actually exceed natural performance. | |
| Regulatory Drivers, Geopolitical Pressures, and Future Roadmap | 4 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Raz brings up the EU deforestation directive as a major commercial tailwind. Ticku expands on broader geopolitical disruptions, including the Indonesian palm oil export ban. |
Statements from this episode (23)
Singapore Air Quality Index Surpassed 400 During Palm Oil Burning Season
“And I quickly learned the air quality index was over 400, and anything over a 150 is dangerous, and over 300 is toxic.”
Indonesia and Malaysia Burn Rainforests for Palm Oil Plantations
“Our neighbors in Indonesia and Malaysia, essentially they're burning forest, they're clearing tropical rainforest to convert that land into oil palm plantations to make this vegetable oil called palm oil.”
Palm Oil Is in Half of All Supermarket Shelf Products
“It is in 50% of products on supermarket shelves, and like you said, every person touches it every day, including me, who tries not to, but it's ubiquitous, and it is in everything from soaps and shampoos
To lipstick and laundry detergent, to most of the foods …”
The Palm Oil Market Will Continue to Grow Over the Next 30 Years
“It's efficient, it's productive, so we can make a lot of it, but the reason that it has grown so explosively and will continue to grow over the next 30 years really comes down to the performance of palm oil as compared to other vegetable oils.”
Palm Oil's Unique Fatty Acid Profile Cannot Be Replicated by Other Oils
“The fatty acid profile of palm oil is broader than any other vegetable oil, and it's unique because it's sort of half saturated and half unsaturated fats, and you just can't replicate that with any other fat and oil”
Oil Palm Trees Can Only Grow Within 10 Degrees of the Equator
“It can only grow within about five to 10 degrees of the equator.”
Slashing and Burning Peatland for Palm Oil Emits Billions of Tons of CO2
“And so to meet this growing demand, growers have been slashing and burning tropical rainforest, burning both the trees and the peatland, which is full of carbon that emits billions of tons of carbon dioxide emissions into the air, which is problem number one.”
The Global Palm Oil Industry Was Valued at $60 Billion in 2016
“It was a sixty billion dollar industry, palm oil alone, in 2016 when we met.”
Over 200 CPG Companies Pledged Against Conflict Palm Oil by 2016
“When we started looking at this problem, there were over 200 large consumer products companies, and there were nine countries which had made Public commitments to their stakeholders that they were going to stop using this conflict palm oil, which engaged in de…”
Major Consumer Brands Are Failing Their Sustainable Palm Oil Pledges
“The, some of the largest consumer products companies in the world had made these commitments, but every one of them was failing because there was no viable alternative.”
Tracing Palm Oil Supply Chains for Deforestation Is Nearly Impossible
“It's really hard to confirm that the palm oil in your product has been grown sustainably. And it just comes down to these very complicated supply chains, where if you were buying, you know, a bag of potato chips, it's nearly impossible to trace that palm oil a…”
Less Than 20% of Global Palm Oil Is Produced Sustainably
“Palm oil can absolutely be produced sustainably. Most of it is not. Less than 20% of it is, and it's really been capped at that amount, and it's really hard to have confidence if it has been produced sustainably.”
C16 Biosciences Relies on Naturally Oleaginous Yeast Rather Than Genetic Modification
“So instead of sort of finding the DNA responsible for producing oil in the oil palm tree and then importing that and genetically inserting it into a yeast, we actually found a yeast which could naturally make the oil that we wanted.”
C16 Biosciences Ferments and Extracts Bio-Palm Oil in Just Six Days
“Our process today, we can start a, we call it a production run, and in six days we can extract oil.”
C16 Biosciences Raised $4 Million Within Two Weeks of Y Combinator Demo Day
“We made enough oil, got up on stage for two minutes, held it up, and gave our pitch, and in about two weeks, we were able to raise four million dollars to get the company started.”
Why the Food Industry Is a Difficult First Market for Bio-Oils
“There's a long regulatory pipeline for getting your product approved for use in the food system or green, green-lighted to get in the food system. The customers in the food industry are highly risk-averse and slow, and the cost and the margin of products are q…”
Palm Oil in Beauty and Home Care Is a $7 Billion Market
“And then when we looked at the beauty and personal care industry, and also the home care industry, it's still massive. It's a massive opportunity. It's Five to seven billion dollars for palm oil alone today.”
C16's Palmless Oil Sold Out in Three Hours With Zero Ad Spend
“That being said, we launched this product. We spent zero dollars advertising it, and it sold out in three hours, and it was a limited launch.”
Palmless Launch Brought 100 Brands and Major CPG Companies Into C16's Pipeline
“We have, and one of the things that happened with this launch was we had about a hundred brands fill up our pipeline. So we currently have basically every major consumer packaged good company.”
C16 Biosciences Is Already Gross-Margin Positive in the Beauty Market
“In our first market, we're already gross margin positive, so in the beauty industry, we've got people willing to pay high prices for this, because they love the story, they love the innovation, and they love the product, and they'll pay high prices, and we hav…”
The Global Vegetable Oil Market Will Near $1 Trillion by 2050
“The global vegetable oil industry is going to be almost a trillion dollars by twenty-fifty.”
C16's Palmless Oil Will Enter Food Products Within Two Years
“By the end of this year, we'll be in a handful of other personal care products, so think skin care and body care products, and other brands featuring Palmless as the sort of innovator, and within two years or so, we will be able to be in food products.”