Aug 3, 2023 · 39m · how-i-built-this
Powering cars with solar energy with Steve Fambro of Aptera Motors
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of How I Built This Lab, Guy Raz interviews Aptera Motors co-founder Steve Fambro about the aerodynamic principles, company downfall and resurrection, and solar engineering behind their ultra-efficient solar-electric vehicle.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 40.6% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Guy as informed peer 3.9 Guest teaching 4.0 Guest disagreement 1.4 Guy pushing back 2.0
speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 27:42 Dismissing conventional EVs as electrified steel boxes
Fambro rejects the comparison to standard market EVs, disparaging them as mere steel boxes with electric components shoved inside.
Hardest push from Guy ▶ 8:03 Raz calls leaving a stable career nutsRaz directly confronts Fambro on walking away from lucrative Illumina equity to start a car company while his wife was pregnant.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 10:49 Explaining ground effect aerodynamics through shark biologyFambro educates Raz on ground effect fluid dynamics, demonstrating why bottom-dwelling fish camber their backs and how Aptera replicates this.
Guy holds their own ▶ 17:07 Raz outlines DOE loan program regulatory restrictionsRaz displays strong industry knowledge by explaining how federal EV loan programs specifically shut out three-wheeled platforms.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Guy as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Guy pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Steve Fambro's Commute and Aerodynamic Epiphany | 4 | 4 | 1 | 1 | Raz connects Fambro's F-150 commute to typical vehicle fuel economy figures. Fambro details how modern vehicle silhouettes trace an unchanged lineage back to Roman carts and explain high drag. | |
| Partnering with Chris Anthony and Defining Aptera's Vision | 3 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Raz and Fambro discuss partnering with Chris Anthony, contrasting boat wake generation with hyper-efficient vehicle aerodynamics. | |
| Leaving Illumina to Pursue the Startup Dream | 3 | 3 | 2 | 5 | Raz challenges Fambro's choice to abandon a stable job at Illumina with an expectant wife, calling the decision bluntly nuts. | |
| Aerodynamic Biomimicry and Ground Effect Design | 3 | 6 | 2 | 2 | Fambro corrects Raz's translation of Aptera before delivering an in-depth explanation of ground effect aerodynamics and biomimicry inspired by bottom-swimming sharks. | |
| Mid-Show Break and Sponsorship Announcements | 5 | 3 | 1 | 2 | Raz summarizes the venture climate following the 2008 crash and accurately details Department of Energy loan restrictions excluding three-wheeled vehicles. | |
| Aptera's 2011 Liquidation and Interim Ventures | 4 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Raz guides Fambro through Aptera's 2011 liquidation, auctioning of assets, and Fambro's interim indoor high-density farming venture. | |
| The Rebirth of Aptera and Battery Breakthroughs | 4 | 5 | 1 | 2 | Raz probes the decision to revive a company after bankruptcy. Fambro explains back-of-the-napkin math on energy density achieving 1,000 miles of range. | |
| Second Mid-Show Break and Return | 4 | 4 | 1 | 1 | Raz questions the limits of solar technology on heavier passenger vehicles. Fambro breaks down the 25 percent solar matrix efficiency constraints. | |
| Distinct Market Identity and the Ethos of Solar Freedom | 5 | 4 | 3 | 4 | Raz pushes on target market appeal against mainstream EV makers and viability in overcast regions. Fambro dismisses competitors as steel boxes with electric parts shoved in. | |
| Revolutionary Carbon Composite Manufacturing in Italy | 4 | 5 | 1 | 2 | Raz inquires about safety certifications and composite structures. Fambro explains CPC Italy's automated 6-piece thermoplastic stamping methodology. | |
| Engineering 3D Curved Solar Panels and High-Range Future | 4 | 5 | 1 | 1 | Raz asks what technical leaps remain for solar vehicles. Fambro explains the engineering hurdle of bending solar cells into 3D curves without micro-fractures. | |
| Unique Vehicle Features, Side Mirrors, and Cargo Capacity | 4 | 3 | 2 | 2 | Raz notes US regulatory mandates requiring side mirrors. Fambro mocks the rule as a vestigial horse-and-buggy whip clip regulation. |
Statements from this episode (13)
Fambro: 60% of conventional car energy goes to overcoming aerodynamic drag
“These cars, like they're, 60% of the energy is just pushing the air out of the way. They're like boxes or for pieces of furniture pushing air out of the way. They're not made for aerodynamics.”
Fambro: Aptera originally aimed to build a 300-MPG diesel vehicle
“And once we determine what that was through our research, you know, we believe that with a diesel engine at the time, we could achieve over 300 miles per gallon. And so we just, we built the company around that, and we started fundraising and got our first inv…”
Fambro: Biomimicking bottom-dwelling fish radically reduces Aptera's drag coefficient
“Those creatures also camber their back like Aptera is cambered. And that radically reduces the drag coefficient.”
Fambro: Bill Gurley advised 2008 startups to "cut to the bone"
“I remember he had a single slide on a PowerPoint with a, sort of a piece of ham where all the ham was gone and a knife. You know, on a bone saying cut to the bone. That was his advice to all of the startups at the time.”
Fambro: Aptera yields 11,000 miles of free solar charge yearly in SoCal
“You plug it in like normal if you want, but most people won't ever have to because here in Southern California, you'll probably get about 11,000 miles a year of free charge, so.”
Fambro: Adding solar panels to large, traditional EVs barely improves driving range
“And if you try to do this, you know, to any large electric vehicle, it's barely going to budge, you know, the needle.”
Fambro: Aptera yields 10 to 12 miles of daily solar charge overcast
“It'll, it'll still charge. It might only charge, you know, 10 miles worth or 12 miles worth or something like that if it's overcast or in a northern latitude, you know.”
Fambro: Aptera's initial launch vehicle will deliver 400 miles of range
“The launch vehicle is going to get around 400 miles range.”
Fambro: Aptera radically simplifies manufacturing with just six structural body pieces
“There's only six structural pieces, and so being able to build the vehicle from six pieces, it's just order, magnitude, simplification of tooling, fixtures, etc.”
Fambro: Aptera has 43,000 vehicle reservations worth $1.6 billion
“It's about 43,000 Ivers, reservations, about 1.6 billion dollars worth of vehicles.”
Fambro: Meaningful vehicle solar range requires aerodynamic, 3D curved panels
“If the solar is going to be meaningful, On the vehicle. If it's going to add a meaningful range, the vehicle is going to have to be aerodynamic, right? It can't just be a boxy flat sided vehicle. So if it's going to be aerodynamic, it means you're going to hav…”
Fambro: 1,000-mile range EVs are imminent, led by Aptera's aerodynamic design
“I definitely think so. I think Aptera is going to show the way because of the way technology is right now, there's no other way it's achievable without this extreme obsession with efficiency. There's no other platform out there that can do it. So the vehicles,…”
Fambro: US side mirror mandates are vestigial "buggy whip" regulations
“It's vestigial. It's like saying, you know, you must have a clip for your whip on your buggy. You know, you can't have your whip laying around in the buggy. Like, there's no whip, there's no buggy. You know, we don't need that. But it is a vestigial requiremen…”