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Oct 2, 2023 · 1h 7m · how-i-built-this

Vuori: Joe Kudla

Joe Kudla · 39m spoken Guy Raz · 20m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of How I Built This, host Guy Raz interviews Vuori founder Joe Kudla about his journey from modeling and failed ventures to creating a multi-billion-dollar activewear brand. Kudla details how overcoming pervasive investor rejection, pivoting to direct-to-consumer digital marketing, and maintaining strict financial discipline turned Vuori into an industry powerhouse.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 36% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Guy as informed peer 3.3 Guest teaching 2.9 Guest disagreement 0.5 Guy pushing back 2.0
05100:0015:0030:0045:001:00:003:47–8:57 · Guy as informed peer 2/10 Joe Kudla's Early Life and Modeling Journey Guy Raz sets a relaxed, conversational tone exploring Joe Kudla's alternative upbringing and accidental transition into international modeling. The dynamic is entirely collaborative with lighthearted banter regarding the modeling industry.8:58–18:14 · Guy as informed peer 4/10 Early Ventures: Sammy Jo, Graphic Tees, and Vaco Raz probes into Kudla's early entrepreneurial attempts, questioning how a charitable graphic t-shirt venture was structured to actually make a viable profit. Kudla explains the apparel margins and the headwinds that forced both early ventures to shutter.18:16–25:26 · Guy as informed peer 3/10 The Epiphany, Yoga Practice, and Founding Vision Raz asks why existing giants like Patagonia or legacy surf brands failed to meet consumer needs for studio workouts. Kudla explains the specific void between technical hyper-branded athletic gear and functional lifestyle apparel.25:28–28:03 · Guy as informed peer 0/10 Mid-Roll Break: Land's End and Squarespace Mid-roll commercial segment featuring solo ad reads by Raz for Lands' End Business and Squarespace with zero guest interaction.28:09–41:54 · Guy as informed peer 5/10 Fundraising Hurdles and Prototyping the Core Short Raz acts as devil's advocate, channeling investor skepticism regarding why men would ever purchase dedicated yoga clothing over Nike or Adidas. Kudla shares the industry realities of sourcing premium textiles and bootstrapping the flawed early prototypes of the Core Short.41:57–51:49 · Guy as informed peer 3/10 Mid-Roll Break: Chomps Meat Snacks After an initial ad read, Kudla details the initial failure of selling into boutique gyms and the high-risk pivot to direct-to-consumer digital advertising. Raz explores the emotional toll of early stagnation and the breakthrough of repositioning the product around multi-sport versatility.51:49–1:01:18 · Guy as informed peer 5/10 Wholesale Success with REI and Reaching Profitability Raz questions the counterintuitive move to pursue wholesale retail alongside DTC and brings up well-funded competitors like Rhone. Kudla details his accounting background and outlines why he strictly avoided acquiring customers at a loss.1:01:18–1:06:34 · Guy as informed peer 4/10 Venture Investment, Pandemic Boom, and Unicorn Status Raz charts Vuori's institutional funding, the whiplash of early pandemic disruptions leading into massive demand, and SoftBank's $400 million investment. The conversation concludes on Kudla's perspective on preparation and capital discipline versus sheer luck.3:47–8:57 · Guest teaching 1/10 Joe Kudla's Early Life and Modeling Journey Guy Raz sets a relaxed, conversational tone exploring Joe Kudla's alternative upbringing and accidental transition into international modeling. The dynamic is entirely collaborative with lighthearted banter regarding the modeling industry.8:58–18:14 · Guest teaching 3/10 Early Ventures: Sammy Jo, Graphic Tees, and Vaco Raz probes into Kudla's early entrepreneurial attempts, questioning how a charitable graphic t-shirt venture was structured to actually make a viable profit. Kudla explains the apparel margins and the headwinds that forced both early ventures to shutter.18:16–25:26 · Guest teaching 4/10 The Epiphany, Yoga Practice, and Founding Vision Raz asks why existing giants like Patagonia or legacy surf brands failed to meet consumer needs for studio workouts. Kudla explains the specific void between technical hyper-branded athletic gear and functional lifestyle apparel.25:28–28:03 · Guest teaching 0/10 Mid-Roll Break: Land's End and Squarespace Mid-roll commercial segment featuring solo ad reads by Raz for Lands' End Business and Squarespace with zero guest interaction.28:09–41:54 · Guest teaching 4/10 Fundraising Hurdles and Prototyping the Core Short Raz acts as devil's advocate, channeling investor skepticism regarding why men would ever purchase dedicated yoga clothing over Nike or Adidas. Kudla shares the industry realities of sourcing premium textiles and bootstrapping the flawed early prototypes of the Core Short.41:57–51:49 · Guest teaching 4/10 Mid-Roll Break: Chomps Meat Snacks After an initial ad read, Kudla details the initial failure of selling into boutique gyms and the high-risk pivot to direct-to-consumer digital advertising. Raz explores the emotional toll of early stagnation and the breakthrough of repositioning the product around multi-sport versatility.51:49–1:01:18 · Guest teaching 4/10 Wholesale Success with REI and Reaching Profitability Raz questions the counterintuitive move to pursue wholesale retail alongside DTC and brings up well-funded competitors like Rhone. Kudla details his accounting background and outlines why he strictly avoided acquiring customers at a loss.1:01:18–1:06:34 · Guest teaching 3/10 Venture Investment, Pandemic Boom, and Unicorn Status Raz charts Vuori's institutional funding, the whiplash of early pandemic disruptions leading into massive demand, and SoftBank's $400 million investment. The conversation concludes on Kudla's perspective on preparation and capital discipline versus sheer luck.3:47–8:57 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Joe Kudla's Early Life and Modeling Journey Guy Raz sets a relaxed, conversational tone exploring Joe Kudla's alternative upbringing and accidental transition into international modeling. The dynamic is entirely collaborative with lighthearted banter regarding the modeling industry.8:58–18:14 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Early Ventures: Sammy Jo, Graphic Tees, and Vaco Raz probes into Kudla's early entrepreneurial attempts, questioning how a charitable graphic t-shirt venture was structured to actually make a viable profit. Kudla explains the apparel margins and the headwinds that forced both early ventures to shutter.18:16–25:26 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Epiphany, Yoga Practice, and Founding Vision Raz asks why existing giants like Patagonia or legacy surf brands failed to meet consumer needs for studio workouts. Kudla explains the specific void between technical hyper-branded athletic gear and functional lifestyle apparel.25:28–28:03 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Mid-Roll Break: Land's End and Squarespace Mid-roll commercial segment featuring solo ad reads by Raz for Lands' End Business and Squarespace with zero guest interaction.28:09–41:54 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Fundraising Hurdles and Prototyping the Core Short Raz acts as devil's advocate, channeling investor skepticism regarding why men would ever purchase dedicated yoga clothing over Nike or Adidas. Kudla shares the industry realities of sourcing premium textiles and bootstrapping the flawed early prototypes of the Core Short.41:57–51:49 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Mid-Roll Break: Chomps Meat Snacks After an initial ad read, Kudla details the initial failure of selling into boutique gyms and the high-risk pivot to direct-to-consumer digital advertising. Raz explores the emotional toll of early stagnation and the breakthrough of repositioning the product around multi-sport versatility.51:49–1:01:18 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Wholesale Success with REI and Reaching Profitability Raz questions the counterintuitive move to pursue wholesale retail alongside DTC and brings up well-funded competitors like Rhone. Kudla details his accounting background and outlines why he strictly avoided acquiring customers at a loss.1:01:18–1:06:34 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Venture Investment, Pandemic Boom, and Unicorn Status Raz charts Vuori's institutional funding, the whiplash of early pandemic disruptions leading into massive demand, and SoftBank's $400 million investment. The conversation concludes on Kudla's perspective on preparation and capital discipline versus sheer luck.3:47–8:57 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Joe Kudla's Early Life and Modeling Journey Guy Raz sets a relaxed, conversational tone exploring Joe Kudla's alternative upbringing and accidental transition into international modeling. The dynamic is entirely collaborative with lighthearted banter regarding the modeling industry.8:58–18:14 · Guy pushing back 3/10 Early Ventures: Sammy Jo, Graphic Tees, and Vaco Raz probes into Kudla's early entrepreneurial attempts, questioning how a charitable graphic t-shirt venture was structured to actually make a viable profit. Kudla explains the apparel margins and the headwinds that forced both early ventures to shutter.18:16–25:26 · Guy pushing back 2/10 The Epiphany, Yoga Practice, and Founding Vision Raz asks why existing giants like Patagonia or legacy surf brands failed to meet consumer needs for studio workouts. Kudla explains the specific void between technical hyper-branded athletic gear and functional lifestyle apparel.25:28–28:03 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Mid-Roll Break: Land's End and Squarespace Mid-roll commercial segment featuring solo ad reads by Raz for Lands' End Business and Squarespace with zero guest interaction.28:09–41:54 · Guy pushing back 4/10 Fundraising Hurdles and Prototyping the Core Short Raz acts as devil's advocate, channeling investor skepticism regarding why men would ever purchase dedicated yoga clothing over Nike or Adidas. Kudla shares the industry realities of sourcing premium textiles and bootstrapping the flawed early prototypes of the Core Short.41:57–51:49 · Guy pushing back 2/10 Mid-Roll Break: Chomps Meat Snacks After an initial ad read, Kudla details the initial failure of selling into boutique gyms and the high-risk pivot to direct-to-consumer digital advertising. Raz explores the emotional toll of early stagnation and the breakthrough of repositioning the product around multi-sport versatility.51:49–1:01:18 · Guy pushing back 3/10 Wholesale Success with REI and Reaching Profitability Raz questions the counterintuitive move to pursue wholesale retail alongside DTC and brings up well-funded competitors like Rhone. Kudla details his accounting background and outlines why he strictly avoided acquiring customers at a loss.1:01:18–1:06:34 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Venture Investment, Pandemic Boom, and Unicorn Status Raz charts Vuori's institutional funding, the whiplash of early pandemic disruptions leading into massive demand, and SoftBank's $400 million investment. The conversation concludes on Kudla's perspective on preparation and capital discipline versus sheer luck.

speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Guy 83.1% · guest 16.9%0:00 · Guy 83.1% · guest 16.9%3:00 · Guy 41.5% · guest 58.5%3:00 · Guy 41.5% · guest 58.5%6:00 · Guy 19.8% · guest 80.2%6:00 · Guy 19.8% · guest 80.2%9:00 · Guy 32.5% · guest 67.5%9:00 · Guy 32.5% · guest 67.5%12:00 · Guy 30.2% · guest 69.8%12:00 · Guy 30.2% · guest 69.8%15:00 · Guy 34.1% · guest 65.9%15:00 · Guy 34.1% · guest 65.9%18:00 · Guy 28% · guest 72%18:00 · Guy 28% · guest 72%21:00 · Guy 18.5% · guest 81.5%21:00 · Guy 18.5% · guest 81.5%24:00 · Guy 59.5% · guest 40.5%24:00 · Guy 59.5% · guest 40.5%27:00 · Guy 62.5% · guest 37.5%27:00 · Guy 62.5% · guest 37.5%30:00 · Guy 36.9% · guest 63.1%30:00 · Guy 36.9% · guest 63.1%33:00 · Guy 36.9% · guest 63.1%33:00 · Guy 36.9% · guest 63.1%36:00 · Guy 24.5% · guest 75.5%36:00 · Guy 24.5% · guest 75.5%39:00 · Guy 19.5% · guest 80.5%39:00 · Guy 19.5% · guest 80.5%42:00 · Guy 67.9% · guest 32.1%42:00 · Guy 67.9% · guest 32.1%45:00 · Guy 15.6% · guest 84.4%45:00 · Guy 15.6% · guest 84.4%48:00 · Guy 17.4% · guest 82.6%48:00 · Guy 17.4% · guest 82.6%51:00 · Guy 19.8% · guest 80.2%51:00 · Guy 19.8% · guest 80.2%54:00 · Guy 28.7% · guest 71.3%54:00 · Guy 28.7% · guest 71.3%57:00 · Guy 38.7% · guest 61.3%57:00 · Guy 38.7% · guest 61.3%1:00:00 · Guy 18.9% · guest 81.1%1:00:00 · Guy 18.9% · guest 81.1%1:03:00 · Guy 47.4% · guest 52.6%1:03:00 · Guy 47.4% · guest 52.6%1:06:00 · Guy 61.2% · guest 38.8%1:06:00 · Guy 61.2% · guest 38.8%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 59:57 Kudla criticizes VC-backed customer acquisition economics

Kudla forcefully rejects the widely accepted DTC playbook of buying market share at negative contribution margins, arguing it was fundamentally flawed.

 Hardest push from Guy ▶ 14:30 Raz presses Kudla on the economic reality of his second venture

Raz interrupts the narrative flow to challenge how a boutique graphic t-shirt business with a charity component could realistically generate sustainable profits.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 31:38 Kudla explains the activewear textile quality secret

Kudla educates Raz on the apparel manufacturing space, revealing that legacy sportswear giants focused entirely on premium footwear while using cheap, non-premium fabrics for clothing.

 Guy holds their own ▶ 55:33 Raz frames the competitive landscape against Rhone and Outdoor Voices

Raz demonstrates deep market knowledge by citing specific contemporary competitors and the massive venture capital rounds they were raising at the time.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicGuy as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementGuy pushing backWhy
Joe Kudla's Early Life and Modeling Journey 2101 Guy Raz sets a relaxed, conversational tone exploring Joe Kudla's alternative upbringing and accidental transition into international modeling. The dynamic is entirely collaborative with lighthearted banter regarding the modeling industry.
Early Ventures: Sammy Jo, Graphic Tees, and Vaco 4313 Raz probes into Kudla's early entrepreneurial attempts, questioning how a charitable graphic t-shirt venture was structured to actually make a viable profit. Kudla explains the apparel margins and the headwinds that forced both early ventures to shutter.
The Epiphany, Yoga Practice, and Founding Vision 3412 Raz asks why existing giants like Patagonia or legacy surf brands failed to meet consumer needs for studio workouts. Kudla explains the specific void between technical hyper-branded athletic gear and functional lifestyle apparel.
Mid-Roll Break: Land's End and Squarespace 0000 Mid-roll commercial segment featuring solo ad reads by Raz for Lands' End Business and Squarespace with zero guest interaction.
Fundraising Hurdles and Prototyping the Core Short 5414 Raz acts as devil's advocate, channeling investor skepticism regarding why men would ever purchase dedicated yoga clothing over Nike or Adidas. Kudla shares the industry realities of sourcing premium textiles and bootstrapping the flawed early prototypes of the Core Short.
Mid-Roll Break: Chomps Meat Snacks 3402 After an initial ad read, Kudla details the initial failure of selling into boutique gyms and the high-risk pivot to direct-to-consumer digital advertising. Raz explores the emotional toll of early stagnation and the breakthrough of repositioning the product around multi-sport versatility.
Wholesale Success with REI and Reaching Profitability 5413 Raz questions the counterintuitive move to pursue wholesale retail alongside DTC and brings up well-funded competitors like Rhone. Kudla details his accounting background and outlines why he strictly avoided acquiring customers at a loss.
Venture Investment, Pandemic Boom, and Unicorn Status 4301 Raz charts Vuori's institutional funding, the whiplash of early pandemic disruptions leading into massive demand, and SoftBank's $400 million investment. The conversation concludes on Kudla's perspective on preparation and capital discipline versus sheer luck.

Statements from this episode (8)

Insight
Kudla: Founders with day jobs retreat too easily when startups get tough
“I was going to have to jump in with two feet because there's just too many opportunities where things get tough and you want to retreat back to what's comfortable. And if you have a day job, you have a salary paying the bills. It's too easy to return to that s…”
Joe Kudla Oct 2, 2023 ▶ 24:39
Insight
Kudla: Legacy athletic brands missed premium textiles, conceding apparel to Lululemon
“The dirty secret in our space is that the big brands, you know, they were really premium footwear offerings, but they never really had a premium apparel offering. Whereas like Lulu inherently was working with fabrics that were much more expensive. So before yo…”
Joe Kudla Oct 2, 2023 ▶ 31:28
Disclosure
Kudla: Vuori missed its $2M initial funding target, raising only $500k
“I think our first raise, we had a goal of a couple million dollars, I think we raised 400, like 400 to 500,000, somewhere in that range.”
Joe Kudla Oct 2, 2023 ▶ 33:23
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kudla: Vuori's early direct-to-consumer ad spend hit a 3x monthly return
“Before you knew it, we were putting 10,000 dollars in and we were getting 20,000 dollars back in a month. And then we were putting 20,000 dollars in and we were getting 60,000 dollars back.”
Joe Kudla Oct 2, 2023 ▶ 51:21
Disclosure
Kudla: Vuori raised its first $2M entirely from friends and family
“So over the first few years of the business, we raised two million dollars of capital from friends and family, no financial institutions.”
Joe Kudla Oct 2, 2023 ▶ 52:25
Assertion Supported
Kudla: Women's apparel now accounts for 50% of Vuori's total business
“And so, 2018 was when we decided it was time, and we designed a very small capsule for women's, and we brought it to market, and today, 50% of our business is actually women's.”
Joe Kudla Oct 2, 2023 ▶ 59:14
Disclosure
Kudla: Vuori used 2019 VC funding for liquidity to preserve financial discipline
“A lot of the money ended up going to shareholders because the business didn't need capital. So we didn't go out and put a bunch of money on the balance sheet at that time because we didn't want it to create bad habits. We were very proud of the discipline and …”
Joe Kudla Oct 2, 2023 ▶ 1:02:17
Disclosure
Kudla: SoftBank approached Vuori with an unsolicited investment offer
“Yeah. We weren't looking for capital, but, you know, we had ambitious plans for Viore, and that was a really big moment for the brand, because short of an IPO, I think it was the first time that Maybe the market understood how special this business is that we'…”
Joe Kudla Oct 2, 2023 ▶ 1:04:17
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