Dec 11, 2023 · 1h 16m · how-i-built-this
Wondery: Hernan Lopez
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of 'How I Built This,' Guy Raz interviews media executive Hernán López about his path from Fox International Channels to founding Wondery, transforming podcasting through cinematic storytelling, and overcoming major legal battles before selling to Amazon.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 41.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Guy as informed peer 2.4 Guest teaching 2.2 Guest disagreement 0.6 Guy pushing back 0.5
speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 12:54 Hernan's pragmatic defense of accent modification
Hernan firmly counters modern corporate sensibilities by asserting that without accent training, non-native speakers lose credit for their ideas to more articulate peers.
Hardest push from Guy ▶ 1:04:05 Guy directly raises the federal bribery indictmentGuy presses Hernan directly on the criminal charges and whether he was aware of bribery during his executive tenure at Fox.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 24:00 Hernan details the media mechanics of the TiVo transitionHernan breaks down how on-demand technology transformed television from episodic procedurals to season-long character arcs, mapping it directly to podcasts.
Guy holds their own ▶ 21:10 Guy outlines the evergreen economics of audio librariesGuy demonstrates his own industry expertise by articulating how evergreen catalog IP funds risky new audio production over decades.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Guy as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Guy pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Youth in Argentina, Media Ambitions, and Early Identity | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | Guy Raz gently prompts Hernan on his youth in Argentina during the dictatorship and coming out. Hernan gives standard autobiographical context with zero friction. | |
| Rising at Fox and the Value of Accent Coaching | 3 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Guy discusses 2000s television programming and the nuances of taking accent reduction classes in American corporate culture versus European norms. Hernan illustrates why communication clarity was critical to his C-suite rise. | |
| Executive Leadership at Fox and Entrepreneurial Yearnings | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Hernan explains how international television experience taught him to spot media fragmentation early. The tone is entirely conversational and collaborative. | |
| The TiVo Analogy and the Audio Storytelling Thesis | 4 | 4 | 1 | 1 | Guy and Hernan exchange media industry theories, comparing Serial and podcasts to TiVo and the golden age of prestige TV. Both demonstrate deep familiarity with media IP and evergreen audio libraries. | |
| Mid-Roll Break: Sponsor Messages and Listener Feedback | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Mid-roll sponsorship reads and a listener voicemail memo. There is no host-guest interaction. | |
| Founding Wondery, Venture Capital Rejections, and Early Losses | 3 | 3 | 1 | 0 | Hernan describes pitching 50 VCs who rejected him and applying Hollywood sound design to true stories. Guy actively validates the difficulties of audio production. | |
| The Breakthrough Success of Dirty John | 2 | 2 | 0 | 1 | Guy asks about the turning point with Dirty John and turning down an early acquisition buyout offer. Hernan explains betting on the IP rather than accepting a premature exit. | |
| Scaling Original Franchises and Strategic Acquisition Interest | 3 | 2 | 0 | 1 | Guy probes Hernan on diversification beyond advertising and fielding multimillion-dollar unsolicited offers. Hernan explains how VC equity obligations guided his decisions. | |
| The FIFA Indictment, Amazon Acquisition, and Full Exoneration | 3 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Guy questions Hernan directly about the federal FIFA bribery indictment and trial while negotiating the Amazon sale. Hernan clarifies the false testimony that implicated him and his eventual legal exoneration. | |
| Reflections on Luck, Work Ethic, and Future Horizons | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | Guy asks Hernan to assess current podcast industry layoffs and weigh luck against skill. Hernan gives an optimistic macro perspective on international audio and video podcasting growth. |
Statements from this episode (21)
Hernán López: First Media Project Was a Self-Funded Radio Show at 18
“I remember when I was 18 with four friends of mine, we bought airtime on a neighborhood radio station. This was late at night on Thursday at 11 p.m., and we had a radio show, and we financed it by selling advertising.”
Hernán López considers accent reduction coaching his highest-ROI career decision
“As far as time spent versus impact on my career, One of the best decisions I ever made, and I recommended this to so many people over the years.”
Raz: US managers today would not recommend accent coaching to employees
“And I think in the United States today, no boss would ever give somebody this advice. They would not give this advice because it would be considered to be toxic.”
López: Would not have reached Fox C-suite without accent coaching
“A thousand percent. I don't think I would have.”
López: Operating in international markets allows executives to predict future media trends
“If you work in international, you have the ability to, quote unquote, read tomorrow's newspaper, because you're in a country, and You're seeing a trend, and that trend probably happened at some other country five years before, two years before, three years bef…”
López: A 2015 bank valuation pegged Fox International Channels at $10 billion
“There's a moment that I remember in 2015, there's this bank that generated or published a valuation of the whole company of Fox. It's called a sum of the parts valuation, where they go and value each part of the business. And there's FIC, which at the time had…”
López: Entertainment Studio Profits from Catalog Libraries Fund Risky New Productions
“When you talk to anybody who has run a movie studio or a television studio, they will tell you that library funds new production, right? That the profits and the cash flow that comes from library typically is what funds new production because new production is…”
Hernán López: Fox invested $250,000 in Wondery's seed round
“Fox, and so they put a, 250,000 dollar check.”
The entire podcasting industry was estimated at just $125M in 2016
“The whole industry was thought to be worth a hundred and twenty-five million dollars.”
Hernán López: Wondery received over 50 VC rejections in 2016
“I stopped counting the no's after I hit 50 on venture capitals”
López: Building a media brand requires combining original and licensed content
“It's almost impossible to create a media brand with just your own content. You have to combine Content that you produce with content that you license from others”
Apple gave Wondery's 'Dirty John' a rare carousel takeover promotion
“And then finally we went to the Apple podcast team and actually shared with them the first episode of the show. They loved it so much that they agreed to give us what at the time was called the Beyonce treatment, you know, the takeover of the top carousel of t…”
A major company offered Wondery $5M at a $25M valuation
“In the middle of that happening, we got approach finally looked like we were going to raise money, and we, one major company agreed to essentially fund our CSA at five million dollars at a twenty-five million dollar valuation.”
López: Dirty John was #1 on Apple Podcasts for 30 straight days
“It was number one on Apple Podcasts for 30 days straight. It made something like two million listeners within the first month per episode more, way more than we had predicted”
López: Greycroft led Wondery's Series A at a $22M valuation
“We closed our CSA run, which had valued the company at twenty-two million dollars”
Wondery rejected a 2018 acquisition offer exceeding $80 million
“We, they came with an offer that was four times when we had raised that.”
López: Listeners won't recommend narrative shows that lack clear endings
“One of the most tried and true things in Hollywood is that you need to have a satisfying ending to a story. And when you don't have a clear ending, people will not recommend the show to other people.”
López: No Wondery investors asked him to step down after federal indictment
“Not a single one said that.”
López: Every single Wondery employee held equity prior to Amazon sale
“And we had hundreds of shareholders including every single employee in Wondery was a stakeholder.”