Dec 21, 2023 · 37m · how-i-built-this
Shooting for the moon with Steve Altemus of Intuitive Machines
0:00 / 0:00
gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of How I Built This Lab, host Guy Raz interviews Intuitive Machines founder Steve Altemus about building commercial lunar landers, unlocking space resource economics, and pioneering private deep-space exploration under NASA's Artemis initiative.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 37.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Guy as informed peer 3.1 Guest teaching 4.5 Guest disagreement 1.3 Guy pushing back 2.1
speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 9:30 Rejecting the premise that the moon has been fully explored
Altemus directly counters Raz's suggestion that Apollo gathered all necessary science by comparing Apollo's tiny footprint to attempting to understand Earth through a drinking straw.
Hardest push from Guy ▶ 14:30 Challenging the commercial necessity of lunar explorationRaz pushes back on the economic justification for lunar mining, challenging whether rare earth mineral deposits are truly unique to the moon given Earth's own bombardment history.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 16:29 Educating host on navigating moon landings without sea levelAltemus explains why modern landers crash frequently, detailing the lack of sea-level references, mountainous crater hazards, and completely autonomous descent requirements.
Guy holds their own ▶ 8:01 Framing the US lunar directive in international contextRaz demonstrates domain knowledge by detailing China's 2019 lunar landing and India's subsequent space milestones to explain why the US government reclassified the moon as a strategic interest.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Guy as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Guy pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Leaving NASA and the 1,000-Day Walking Robot Vision | 4 | 3 | 1 | 2 | Guy Raz demonstrates background knowledge regarding NASA's budget cuts under the Obama administration. He also interjects to clarify that the prototype walking robot only operated on the ISS rather than the lunar surface. | |
| Genesis as an Engineering Think Tank and Strategic Lunar Pivot | 4 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Raz connects the strategic shift in US lunar policy to China's 2019 lunar landing and India's subsequent achievements. Altemus elaborates on how Intuitive Machines transformed from a multi-industry Houston think tank into a dedicated lunar lander venture. | |
| The Scientific and Resource Imperatives for Returning to the Moon | 3 | 7 | 2 | 3 | Raz plays devil's advocate by asking if humanity had already gathered everything necessary during the Apollo program. Altemus dismantles this premise using a vivid analogy, explaining that Apollo samples represent seeing Earth through a tiny straw. | |
| Sponsor Break: Hero Bread and Miro Collaboration Tools | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Mid-roll commercial break featuring promotions for Hero Bread and Miro workspace collaboration tools. | |
| Lunar Mining Potential and the Extreme Physics of Descent | 4 | 6 | 2 | 4 | Raz questions the scientific rationale for lunar mineral abundance versus Earth, and presses on why modern lunar landings fail nearly 45% of the time. Altemus educates Raz on lunar topography, lack of sea-level benchmarks, and autonomous descent dynamics. | |
| Nova-C Architecture, Commercial Payloads, and SpaceX Launch Disruption | 3 | 5 | 1 | 2 | Raz observes that Nova-C's cylinder and landing legs visually mimic 1960s Apollo landers. Altemus explains the vertical integration, mass-to-energy constraints, and commercial payload economics at $1 million per kilogram. | |
| Commercial Property Rights and the Artemis Accords Framework | 3 | 6 | 1 | 2 | Raz inquires about legal ownership and territorial claims regarding lunar mineral extraction. Altemus details the legal mechanics of the Artemis Accords, explaining the difference between sovereign land claims and commercial extraction rights. | |
| Launch Preparation and Building System Reliability Through Iteration | 3 | 4 | 1 | 1 | Raz draws a parallel to the Wright brothers' iterative crash history. Altemus agrees, framing lunar mission reliability around 'shots on goal' and repetitive hardware iteration similar to SpaceX. | |
| Lunar Terrain Vehicles and Artemis Human Landing Timelines | 4 | 5 | 2 | 2 | Raz asks about human transport ambitions and asks for a realistic landing year prediction. Altemus outlines the Lunar Terrain Vehicle contract model and provides an insider critique of NASA's optimistic timelines, predicting 2030 for human landings. | |
| Managing Failure Odds and Retiring Deep Space Risk | 3 | 6 | 2 | 4 | Raz presses Altemus on the sobering historical statistics that no private company has ever successfully landed on the moon. Altemus reframes risk retirement across multiple missions, maintaining that achieving major mission milestones already proves the commercial economic model. |
Statements from this episode (13)
Altemus: NASA team flew lunar lander test bed 37 times at KSC
“We went ahead and built a lunar lander test bed for, to flying on earth, and we built a walking robot. We flew the walking robot to space station and we flew the lander by itself about 37 times, successfully launched it from Earth and landed it on a simulated …”
Altemus: Intuitive Machines had single-digit millions in revenue before lunar pivot
“And we were kind of, you know bouncing on the bottom somewhat, you know, single digit millions revenue not really gaining traction with any of the inventions.”
Altemus: US declared Moon strategic interest in 2018 to counter China
“Where it turned, Guy, was in 2018 the National Security Council and the National Space Council declared that the moon was now of strategic interest. China was coming on strong, and the U.S. Needed to set the norms and behaviors of how we live in space. And wor…”
Altemus: Humanity has only returned 360 kilograms of lunar material
“For all of the moon rocks that we brought back in the history of humanity, there's only 360 kilograms of material.”
Altemus: Lunar mining can become a commercial alternative to terrestrial strip-mining
“At the rate that we consume rare earth minerals and materials, we now have pristine areas that would have to be strip mined to find the last bastion of materials that we're looking for. We don't want to do that. We don't want to destroy our earth. So if there'…”
Altemus: Only India and China have successfully landed on the Moon recently
“The very recent history, it's only been India and China. India being the latest and the, and you saw the recent Russian mission to the moon failed on the way.”
Altemus: Intuitive Machines 3D-prints its rocket engines at Spaceport Houston
“We actually additively manufacture or three D print our own engines. And then we test them right here. We're on Spaceport Houston, the Ellington airport.”
Altemus: Intuitive Machines charges roughly $1M per kilogram for lunar payloads
“We can charge roughly a million dollars a kilogram to take those payloads to the moon, whether that's a government payload or commercial payload. So if you can do that, that's roughly a hundred million dollars plus of revenue that you can generate with each mi…”
Altemus: Artemis Accords permit commercial companies to own lunar samples
“So if you land on the moon, you can bring back samples and own those samples per the Artemis Accords. It's not where they belong to the sovereign governments. They can belong to commercial companies.”
Altemus: Lunar landings establish heritage site coordination, not land ownership
“You land, you own what they call a heritage site. And that means other countries or other companies that want to fly near you, if you're declared as a heritage site, need to coordinate with you before they land and damage any of the equipment that you have the…”
Altemus: SpaceX scheduled Intuitive Machines lunar launch for January 12, 2024
“So SpaceX has given us a launch date for January 12th of 2024. We have a five day window to get off. There's only a certain amount of days per month that you can fly to the moon where it's in the right position to where we can land at our designated landing si…”
Altemus: Humans will not return to the Moon until 2030
“And so I think it's twenty-thirty before we see boots on the moon.”
Altemus: Intuitive Machines will survive even if its first lander fails
“We have three missions to the moon. Failure is likely like you indicated. We have now three shots at the moon, so we are not a company that builds one lander, and if it succeeds, we're successful. If it fails, we go under. We have diversified revenue streams. …”