Mar 28, 2024 · 34m · how-i-built-this
“Beaming” people anywhere in the world with David Nussbaum of Proto
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of 'How I Built This Lab,' Guy Raz interviews Proto founder and CEO David Nussbaum about his journey from broadcast radio and podcasting to pioneering self-contained volumetric telepresence devices that project lifelike, interactive 3D holograms.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 36.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Guy as informed peer 2.0 Guest teaching 1.8 Guest disagreement 0.1 Guy pushing back 0.3
speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 32:34 Nussbaum defends Proto's AI safety measures
Nussbaum quickly counters Raz's concerns about unauthorized AI avatars by firmly emphasizing their strict consent policies and data encryption controls.
Hardest push from Guy ▶ 31:49 Raz raises alarm bells over AI avatars and deepfakesRaz directly challenges the introduction of conversational AI avatars and Proto-GPT, pressing Nussbaum on how the company prevents unauthorized deepfakes and non-consensual likeness usage.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 9:15 Explaining the cost and physical constraints of Pepper's GhostNussbaum educates Raz on the immense technical and financial constraints of historical holographic stage illusions, detailing why they required hundreds of thousands of dollars per show.
Guy holds their own ▶ 31:49 Raz demonstrates familiarity with generative AI risksRaz leverages his background covering generative AI breakthroughs and deepfake controversies to critically interrogate Proto's safety architecture.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Guy as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Guy pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| How I Built This Listener Pitch Announcement | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Guy Raz presents a standard show promo and sets up the introductory premise of Proto and David Nussbaum's early radio background. Nussbaum introduces his early comedy podcasting days in an entirely conversational tone. | |
| Producing Comedy Podcasts and Pioneering Podcast Advertising | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Raz inquires about how Nussbaum financed his early podcasts before the medium's mainstream boom. Nussbaum explains leveraging his background selling radio ads to sponsor his own shows and eventually sell for other major podcasters. | |
| Tupac at Coachella and the Digital Resurrection Company | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Raz connects Nussbaum's career trajectory to the viral 2012 Tupac Shakur Coachella hologram. Nussbaum explains brokering the rights to the underlying patent to build a holographic concert company. | |
| The Limitations of Pepper's Ghost and the Genesis of Proto | 2 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Raz asks why holographic concert productions were so prohibitively expensive. Nussbaum explains the engineering hurdles of the traditional Pepper's Ghost illusion and his pivot toward connecting living individuals via telepresence. | |
| Bootstrapping and Prototyping the Holoportation Box | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Raz asks about sourcing talent and building early hardware prototypes from scratch. Nussbaum details bootstrapping the concept with his own life savings before securing institutional capital. | |
| Engineering the 3D Illusion and the Comic-Con Breakthrough | 2 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Raz asks for a visual walkthrough of the technology's mechanics. Nussbaum describes using a custom light box, off-the-shelf 4K capture, and simple visual cues like shadows and floor reflections to sell the 3D illusion. | |
| Enterprise Applications and Live Two-Way Communication | 3 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Raz asks about the enterprise market and price point of the full-scale device, noting his own firsthand experience seeing it at CES. Nussbaum explains how bidirectional sensors and return feeds allow remote live interaction across multiple units simultaneously. | |
| Beaming Celebrities: Howie Mandel and William Shatner | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Nussbaum shares anecdotes of celebrity early adopters including Howie Mandel and William Shatner using the device for remote appearances. Raz listens and validates the environmental and travel time savings. | |
| Exploring Tabletop Holoportation and Consumer Connections | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Raz inquires about the consumer roadmap and how the technology differentiates itself from flat video chat devices like Amazon Echo Show or Portal. Nussbaum outlines the tabletop unit and his ambition to lower pricing beneath a thousand dollars. | |
| Simplifying Broadcast Capture and Future Hardware Integration | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Raz points out that capture requires only standard cameras rather than complex 3D rigs. Nussbaum confirms this simplicity and elaborates on software updates transforming the boxes into hybrid multi-use displays. | |
| AI Avatars, Proto-GPT, and Deepfake Safeguards | 4 | 2 | 1 | 3 | Raz raises serious ethical and safety concerns regarding Proto-GPT, deepfakes, and unauthorized AI likenesses. Nussbaum defends their architecture by citing consent protocols, end-to-end data encryption, and upstream platform guardrails. |
Statements from this episode (15)
Nussbaum claims Proto built the first interactive volumetric telepresence holograms.
“Like, the work that I'm in right now is difficult, because I'm the first in the world to sort of do what I'm doing now.”
Nussbaum's previous firm held hologram rights to Bernie Mac and Judy Garland.
“We did do Billie Holiday and Jackie Wilson and Whitney Houston, but I mean, some of the names that we never got to, we had at one point, my old company had the rights to Bernie Mac, Judy Garland, Dean Martin, Red Foxx, Andy Kaufman, Liberace.”
Historical Pepper's Ghost holograms cost hundreds of thousands per show.
“You're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars to do a single show, which is why you had to be Michael Jackson or Tupac Or Elvis to be a hologram, because you have to sell tickets to that, because you need to fill a room, and you'd be lucky to even brea…”
Nussbaum: Proto was funded with personal savings after initial angel money
“Everything beyond the Mike Bickell money, it was my own money. It was everything that I'd saved”
Proto's initial live hologram MVP was built using off-the-shelf 4K cameras.
“We had a small studio capture kit set up. It was a small regular off the shelf, four K camera in a locked off position. I had a white psych wall behind me. The cycle was made out of a roll of paper... I used a light to cast a shadow, a plexiglass floor to crea…”
Nussbaum: Proto devices are used in about 30 colleges and universities
“We're in about 30 colleges and universities right now.”
Nussbaum: Proto technology can broadcast to thousands of locations simultaneously
“There's everything that you would need to hear, see, and interact with your audience, or audiences, because our technology, you can beam into
Thousands of locations at the same time.”
Proto beamed William Shatner live to a keynote in Sydney
“Right before we beamed Howie to CES, we beamed the man who made beaming people places famous, Mr. William Shatner. He had a job to do. He had a keynote speech to give on stage in Sydney, Australia, 8000 miles away from where he lives.”
Proto will halve the price of its flagship ProtoEpic device within months.
“In the next several months, I will be able to cut that price in half.”
Nussbaum: Proto's miniature tabletop display costs around $6,000
“The miniature tabletop device is around 6000 dollars.”
Nussbaum: Proto's goal is a consumer holographic device under $1,000
“But my plan, the goal with Proto is to have a consumer device under a thousand dollars.”
Proto allows users to beam volumetric video using standard smartphones.
“So yes, you can beam into a proto right now Using your iPhone or any smartphone, you don't need to have a special camera.”
Proto integrates AI avatars and Proto-GPT for multilingual holographic bots.
“I can walk up to a device right now, and I've got a proto-GPT. I've got dozens of avatars, different types of people, a doctor bot, a concierge bot. I've got people that look like celebrities in their voices. I can talk to them. They can talk back to me in any…”
Proto requires total consent and direct involvement for all holographic AI likenesses.
“We don't do anything without total consent over the, whoever it is that we're working with. All of our customers, partners are all involved in the manufacturing of whatever the projections are.”
Nussbaum predicts holographic salespeople will soon greet and assist retail shoppers.
“I believe this is the future of when you walk into a mall, when you walk into a store, You will be approached by a holographic salesperson. You will be able to see the product that you want, and it'll come to life before you, and I think the ability to interac…”