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May 23, 2024 · 43m · how-i-built-this

Advice Line with Tom Rinks of Sun Bum

Tom Rinks · 15m spoken Guy Raz · 13m spoken Allison Mandelbaum · 3m spoken Zephyrus White · 3m spoken Wendy Cushel · 3m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Guy Raz and Sun Bum co-founder Tom Rinks team up on The Advice Line to provide strategic guidance on emotional branding, niche distribution, and product positioning for three emerging entrepreneurs.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 35.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Guy as informed peer 4.8 Guest teaching 1.5 Guest disagreement 1.0 Guy pushing back 0.5
05100:0015:0030:001:01–3:36 · Guy as informed peer 3/10 Tom Rinks on Emotional Branding and Consumer Connection Guy opens by warmly introducing Tom Rinks and framing branding as emotional connection. Tom shares his philosophy that all consumers purchase based on feelings, while Guy listens and validates.3:37–16:29 · Guy as informed peer 5/10 Advising Wendy Cushel on Clarifying Wendela's Hand Scrub Guy and Tom consult caller Wendy Cushel regarding her hand scrub brand. Guy offers practical advice on guerrilla marketing and social videos, while Tom gives blunt feedback on simplifying confusing label copy.16:41–30:06 · Guy as informed peer 6/10 Modern DTC Strategy and Contrarian Brand Positioning Guy and Tom advise Allison on scaling Shady Lady trucker hats. Guy provides strong strategic insights, referencing Lululemon's category creation and recommending micro-influencer partnerships.30:19–41:06 · Guy as informed peer 5/10 Advising Zephyrus White on Positioning Read to Me Guy and Tom counsel Zephyrus White on Read to Me. Guy suggests targeting grandparents and building a military gift-donation mechanism, while Tom strongly pivots the product's primary positioning toward deployed military parents.1:01–3:36 · Guest teaching 2/10 Tom Rinks on Emotional Branding and Consumer Connection Guy opens by warmly introducing Tom Rinks and framing branding as emotional connection. Tom shares his philosophy that all consumers purchase based on feelings, while Guy listens and validates.3:37–16:29 · Guest teaching 1/10 Advising Wendy Cushel on Clarifying Wendela's Hand Scrub Guy and Tom consult caller Wendy Cushel regarding her hand scrub brand. Guy offers practical advice on guerrilla marketing and social videos, while Tom gives blunt feedback on simplifying confusing label copy.16:41–30:06 · Guest teaching 1/10 Modern DTC Strategy and Contrarian Brand Positioning Guy and Tom advise Allison on scaling Shady Lady trucker hats. Guy provides strong strategic insights, referencing Lululemon's category creation and recommending micro-influencer partnerships.30:19–41:06 · Guest teaching 2/10 Advising Zephyrus White on Positioning Read to Me Guy and Tom counsel Zephyrus White on Read to Me. Guy suggests targeting grandparents and building a military gift-donation mechanism, while Tom strongly pivots the product's primary positioning toward deployed military parents.1:01–3:36 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Tom Rinks on Emotional Branding and Consumer Connection Guy opens by warmly introducing Tom Rinks and framing branding as emotional connection. Tom shares his philosophy that all consumers purchase based on feelings, while Guy listens and validates.3:37–16:29 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Advising Wendy Cushel on Clarifying Wendela's Hand Scrub Guy and Tom consult caller Wendy Cushel regarding her hand scrub brand. Guy offers practical advice on guerrilla marketing and social videos, while Tom gives blunt feedback on simplifying confusing label copy.16:41–30:06 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Modern DTC Strategy and Contrarian Brand Positioning Guy and Tom advise Allison on scaling Shady Lady trucker hats. Guy provides strong strategic insights, referencing Lululemon's category creation and recommending micro-influencer partnerships.30:19–41:06 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Advising Zephyrus White on Positioning Read to Me Guy and Tom counsel Zephyrus White on Read to Me. Guy suggests targeting grandparents and building a military gift-donation mechanism, while Tom strongly pivots the product's primary positioning toward deployed military parents.1:01–3:36 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Tom Rinks on Emotional Branding and Consumer Connection Guy opens by warmly introducing Tom Rinks and framing branding as emotional connection. Tom shares his philosophy that all consumers purchase based on feelings, while Guy listens and validates.3:37–16:29 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Advising Wendy Cushel on Clarifying Wendela's Hand Scrub Guy and Tom consult caller Wendy Cushel regarding her hand scrub brand. Guy offers practical advice on guerrilla marketing and social videos, while Tom gives blunt feedback on simplifying confusing label copy.16:41–30:06 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Modern DTC Strategy and Contrarian Brand Positioning Guy and Tom advise Allison on scaling Shady Lady trucker hats. Guy provides strong strategic insights, referencing Lululemon's category creation and recommending micro-influencer partnerships.30:19–41:06 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Advising Zephyrus White on Positioning Read to Me Guy and Tom counsel Zephyrus White on Read to Me. Guy suggests targeting grandparents and building a military gift-donation mechanism, while Tom strongly pivots the product's primary positioning toward deployed military parents.

speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Guy 73.9% · guest 26.1%0:00 · Guy 73.9% · guest 26.1%3:00 · Guy 24% · guest 76%3:00 · Guy 24% · guest 76%6:00 · Guy 19.2% · guest 80.8%6:00 · Guy 19.2% · guest 80.8%9:00 · Guy 32.9% · guest 67.1%9:00 · Guy 32.9% · guest 67.1%12:00 · Guy 28.5% · guest 71.5%12:00 · Guy 28.5% · guest 71.5%15:00 · Guy 52% · guest 48%15:00 · Guy 52% · guest 48%18:00 · Guy 19.5% · guest 80.5%18:00 · Guy 19.5% · guest 80.5%21:00 · Guy 4.1% · guest 95.9%21:00 · Guy 4.1% · guest 95.9%24:00 · Guy 43.1% · guest 56.9%24:00 · Guy 43.1% · guest 56.9%27:00 · Guy 39.2% · guest 60.8%27:00 · Guy 39.2% · guest 60.8%30:00 · Guy 44.8% · guest 55.2%30:00 · Guy 44.8% · guest 55.2%33:00 · Guy 35.8% · guest 64.2%33:00 · Guy 35.8% · guest 64.2%36:00 · Guy 18.8% · guest 81.2%36:00 · Guy 18.8% · guest 81.2%39:00 · Guy 35.5% · guest 64.5%39:00 · Guy 35.5% · guest 64.5%42:00 · Guy 100% · guest 0%42:00 · Guy 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 14:14 Tom Calling Out Confusing Taglines

Tom bluntly rejects Wendy's tagline 'live, laugh, scrub,' stating he is not a fan because it dilutes the brand and confuses potential buyers.

 Hardest push from Guy ▶ 13:46 Tom Pushing Back on Label Space Objection

When Wendy argues she lacks space on her packaging, Tom directly pushes back by highlighting that her current label is cluttered with repetitive text.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 37:51 Tom Educating on Military Distribution Channels

Tom breaks down the scale of military family deployments and explains how the Navy Exchange retail system functions as a focused distribution channel.

 Guy holds their own ▶ 25:03 Guy Applying Historical Business Precedent

Guy draws on business history to explain how Chip Wilson transformed Lululemon by designing specifically for women, translating that exact principle to Allison's hat business.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicGuy as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementGuy pushing backWhy
Tom Rinks on Emotional Branding and Consumer Connection 3200 Guy opens by warmly introducing Tom Rinks and framing branding as emotional connection. Tom shares his philosophy that all consumers purchase based on feelings, while Guy listens and validates.
Advising Wendy Cushel on Clarifying Wendela's Hand Scrub 5121 Guy and Tom consult caller Wendy Cushel regarding her hand scrub brand. Guy offers practical advice on guerrilla marketing and social videos, while Tom gives blunt feedback on simplifying confusing label copy.
Modern DTC Strategy and Contrarian Brand Positioning 6111 Guy and Tom advise Allison on scaling Shady Lady trucker hats. Guy provides strong strategic insights, referencing Lululemon's category creation and recommending micro-influencer partnerships.
Advising Zephyrus White on Positioning Read to Me 5210 Guy and Tom counsel Zephyrus White on Read to Me. Guy suggests targeting grandparents and building a military gift-donation mechanism, while Tom strongly pivots the product's primary positioning toward deployed military parents.

Statements from this episode (4)

Disclosure
Tom Rinks: Sun Bum marketed lip balm as 'world's greatest (to us)'
“And so we ended up making it a signage that said world's greatest lip balm to us in little parentheses underneath it.”
Tom Rinks May 23, 2024 ▶ 10:10
Insight
Tom Rinks: Consumer brands must maintain strict discipline around their distinct edge
“Be really disciplined on who the, what the brand is, right? If you look at Ben and Jerry's and the names of their products and the humor and the way they write, they went all in on that liquid death, all in on their edge. It's just so, I know who they are.”
Tom Rinks May 23, 2024 ▶ 12:47
Insight
Tom Rinks would build an uncool 'nerd sunscreen' if launching today
“If I was going to do it now, I would do something opposite of sunbomb. And so it'd be the opposite of cool. It would be like a nerd sunscreen or something.”
Tom Rinks May 23, 2024 ▶ 17:37
Opinion
Tom Rinks: High-end luxury retail is cheaper long-term than DTC
“If the Four Seasons is carrying it, I think a high-end retail is a Cheaper strategy long-term than trying to think about this D to C, but again, I'm not a D to C guy.”
Tom Rinks May 23, 2024 ▶ 27:38
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