The Exchanges

Q you could do. And then there's a more emerging category, but where there's a lot of activity and interest in, in greenhouse gas emissions removals, uh, CDR that, that relates to the ocean as well. So let's, let's take those in order. Um, starting with the, how do we use the ocean to avoid greenhouse gas emissions? What do you think of as being sort of the biggest category there?

A So In general, I think one of the key things for, for us, or that I would want to make sure that your audience knows and to communicate is that this is not niche. These are enormous industries that we're talking about here, and, um, that, you know, between shipping and renewable energy production and seafood production, like, these are, Our big opportunities that we have in front of us, and so if we looked at, um, just the avoidance strategies to start with, uh, global shipping is about three percent of global greenhouse gas emissions, and so there's no reason to believe that we couldn't completely decarbonize the global shipping industry. The, the catch is how to do that, and how to do that affordably, because About 80% of all of the, the international trade that we have happens on, uh, ocean-going vessels, and so when we think about how we decarbonize that, we have to really think hard about, um, the impacts that might have on, you know, global stability and security and, um, food security especially, and so when we are thinking about short sea shipping, we might be thinking about electrification, so when you're doing, uh, Ferries and moving other things around in short distances. Electrification is a, is a very real opportunity. When we're talking about, uh, getting things, you know, across oceans, right, something from Shanghai to LA, then we need to talk about, um, decarbo…

AI assessment note: “if we looked at, um, just the avoidance strategies to start with, uh, global shipping”

Q attention. I guess to start, can you define it, explain what ocean alkalinity enhancement is, the sort of the theory behind how it could be a major lever for carbon removal, and then what your thoughts are on it with regards to all these things that we've been talking about. Sort of ecosystem impact, certainty of, uh, of impact on carbon removal, open questions. Where are we in that universe?

A So I'll start this by saying that I'm not a geologist, but my, um, my understanding of how this works is that you could either call it advanced weathering or alkalinity enhancement. It's at the basis increasing the rate of weathering of either carbonate or silicate rocks, which then mimics the way that, um, natural geologic sequestration happens. Um, the ocean in general is how the planet Uh, manages carbon, right? And so it appears that it has such high potential for sequestering carbon that it's worth exploring more. And so there's a number of really interesting startups that are working on this, like, uh, Project Vesta and, um, Planetary Technologies that are all looking at how could you then take, um, you know, basically ground-up olivine rocks or, uh, or other, um, Or carbonate rocks, and like, look at how you would introduce those into the ocean in order to, um, you know, sequester some of the carbon that's already been dissolved into the, into the, um, into the ocean. And so, uh, from Project Vesta perspective, they're looking at adding, uh, sand, like, olivine sand, uh, so you're creating beaches, so you're essentially doing beach restoration. Using a material that over time will, uh, be absorbed into the ocean and absorb the CO too, that's, or absorb the carbon that's in the ocean. And then you're looking at, um, You know, with, with planetary tech, they have a slightl…

AI assessment note: “It's at the basis increasing the rate of weathering of either carbonate or silicate rocks”

Q And is the sort of fundamental underpinning of it from a science perspective oceanography and like understanding of what role the oceans play in our ecosystem on earth and, and that kind of thing, or what's the, what unifies all of that? It's, it's presumably, it's just like these things happen on or beneath the sea.

A So yeah, so it's, it's a little bit geographic, right? Um, and it's a little bit, uh, Scientific. So it has both of those aspects that go along with it. Overarching, 70% of the planet is covered by the ocean, and it often feels like a way for most of us, because we don't spend a lot of time either thinking or being in the ocean, but it covers more than half the planet, and there's a lot of technical and intersecting reasons why to You might think about these industries as being related to each other, but for, firstly, it's difficult to do things in the water, and so there's some expertise related to how and when and where you do things and the, that sort of technical capabilities that are required to keep the ocean out of any of the things you might like to put into it, um, so that they don't corrode and otherwise break. Uh, then there's also the, the users and how they interface with each other. So the ocean's one of the, these sort of last great commons areas, and so anytime someone's doing something in the ocean, there are a number of user, either conflicts or resolutions or, uh, stakeholder engagements that need to happen, and so for that reason, You can't just look at, say, offshore wind on its own without also looking at fisheries, and looking at aquaculture, and looking at biodiversity, and the scientific community, and you, and the ports that are going to get things to …

AI assessment note: “it's a little bit geographic, right? Um, and it's a little bit, uh, Scientific.”

Q Yeah. So where are we at in offshore wind today? This is another topic. I mean, we'll probably spend more time at some point in the future, but haven't spent a whole lot of time on, on this podcast before. It's a big deal. Uh, and it's a potentially a huge market. What's your sense of the current state of affairs there?

A It's big, right? Um, this feels, if you've, um, if you've been to an offshore wind conference lately, it, it feels, uh, you could feel the energy in the air. It has, it has just a different feel from many of the other conferences that, that I attend and that I go to because the, the sector is growing so quickly and so many new people are being brought in from elsewhere. Uh, and so the, the excitement is sort of palpable in the U.S. East Coast market for what's happening. The, You know, there's, there's a lot of, um, of hurdles to get over, and of course, permitting is the biggest of them, but it looks like some of those for the first large projects are, are happening now, and so we expect to see some of the first projects getting built over the next couple of years, and, you know, when we look at this space, you know, from a blue tech perspective, we're not focused much on the turbines themselves, right? Like, you know, building, you Uh, turbines is a large company game, right? And so when we look at the, um, interesting areas for innovation in offshore wind, we're really looking around the edges, right? So we're looking at how does one monitor and protect cables under the water? How does one think about the, um, assisting and supporting biodiversity at the base of turbines? How does one think about, um, mitigating environmental impacts of the construction of the offshore turbi…

AI assessment note: “we expect to see some of the first projects getting built over the next couple”

Q Right. But, uh, but that seems like it's a common challenge for blue tech. Is that generally true? And do you feel like that's changing or is it getting in, I guess, either direction?

A I don't think it's a challenge that's going away. It's mostly, uh, you know, learning how to manage those challenges. So when you look at, um, the need or the desire to, say, put something in the water, if you're within a country's exclusive economic zone, then, which is about 200 miles from, uh, the coastline, uh, and the U.S. has the largest EEZ in the world, uh, so if we're looking at exclusive economic zones in the ocean, then it's Up to the individual country to manage how, um, the regulatory framework works for, uh, managing user and user conflict in the ocean. Uh, but when we get into the deep sea, then it gets a little bit more interesting and exciting from a, you know, intergovernmental perspective, and so we, we actually think that, um, most of the interesting venture and startup type opportunities are coastal in nature in any case, because, um, It's so difficult, um, and time-consuming and expensive and energy-intensive to do things that are out in the middle of the ocean anyway. So for the most part, what, when we're talking about, um, activities related to the ocean, we're talking about things that are in the coastal, uh, interface.

AI assessment note: “I don't think it's a challenge that's going away.”