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Oct 24, 2022 · 16m · catalyst

How the US climate bill will finance the energy transition [partner content]

Britta von Ossen · 5m spoken Kayla Schultz · 5m spoken Shayle Kann · 4m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode, clean energy finance experts Britta von Ossen and Kayla Schultz from CohnReznick analyze how the Inflation Reduction Act restructures energy transition finance through expanded tax credits, credit transferability, and targeted incentives for storage and emerging decarbonization technologies.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Shayle holds 28.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Shayle as informed peer 4.3 Guest teaching 4.0 Guest disagreement 0.0 Shayle pushing back 0.0
05100:0010:002:36–6:45 · Shayle as informed peer 4/10 Macroeconomic Outlook for America's Decarbonization and Energy Transition Kann sets up the macro framework and asks the guests to unpack the technical details of the bill. Schultz and von Ossen provide a deep breakdown of ITC and PTC elections, adders, direct pay, and transferability mechanics.6:46–9:04 · Shayle as informed peer 4/10 Tax Equity Market Dynamics and Expanding the Investor Pool Kann prompts the guests on potential supply and demand imbalances in tax equity. Von Ossen and Schultz explain how transferability lowers the structural hurdles for non-traditional corporate investors.9:05–12:38 · Shayle as informed peer 5/10 Impact on Renewable Energy Mergers, Acquisitions, and Pipeline Valuations Kann leads into M&A trends and highlights the standalone storage tax credit. Schultz refines the storage perspective by pointing out both the ITC qualification and the advanced manufacturing production credit.12:39–15:27 · Shayle as informed peer 4/10 Incentives for Emerging Technologies and Reflections on Bill Surprises Kann inquires about emerging sectors like carbon capture and surprises in the bill. Schultz discusses direct pay for early-stage carbon sequestration while von Ossen reflects humorously on her past predictions.2:36–6:45 · Guest teaching 5/10 Macroeconomic Outlook for America's Decarbonization and Energy Transition Kann sets up the macro framework and asks the guests to unpack the technical details of the bill. Schultz and von Ossen provide a deep breakdown of ITC and PTC elections, adders, direct pay, and transferability mechanics.6:46–9:04 · Guest teaching 4/10 Tax Equity Market Dynamics and Expanding the Investor Pool Kann prompts the guests on potential supply and demand imbalances in tax equity. Von Ossen and Schultz explain how transferability lowers the structural hurdles for non-traditional corporate investors.9:05–12:38 · Guest teaching 4/10 Impact on Renewable Energy Mergers, Acquisitions, and Pipeline Valuations Kann leads into M&A trends and highlights the standalone storage tax credit. Schultz refines the storage perspective by pointing out both the ITC qualification and the advanced manufacturing production credit.12:39–15:27 · Guest teaching 3/10 Incentives for Emerging Technologies and Reflections on Bill Surprises Kann inquires about emerging sectors like carbon capture and surprises in the bill. Schultz discusses direct pay for early-stage carbon sequestration while von Ossen reflects humorously on her past predictions.2:36–6:45 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Macroeconomic Outlook for America's Decarbonization and Energy Transition Kann sets up the macro framework and asks the guests to unpack the technical details of the bill. Schultz and von Ossen provide a deep breakdown of ITC and PTC elections, adders, direct pay, and transferability mechanics.6:46–9:04 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Tax Equity Market Dynamics and Expanding the Investor Pool Kann prompts the guests on potential supply and demand imbalances in tax equity. Von Ossen and Schultz explain how transferability lowers the structural hurdles for non-traditional corporate investors.9:05–12:38 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Impact on Renewable Energy Mergers, Acquisitions, and Pipeline Valuations Kann leads into M&A trends and highlights the standalone storage tax credit. Schultz refines the storage perspective by pointing out both the ITC qualification and the advanced manufacturing production credit.12:39–15:27 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Incentives for Emerging Technologies and Reflections on Bill Surprises Kann inquires about emerging sectors like carbon capture and surprises in the bill. Schultz discusses direct pay for early-stage carbon sequestration while von Ossen reflects humorously on her past predictions.2:36–6:45 · Shayle pushing back 0/10 Macroeconomic Outlook for America's Decarbonization and Energy Transition Kann sets up the macro framework and asks the guests to unpack the technical details of the bill. Schultz and von Ossen provide a deep breakdown of ITC and PTC elections, adders, direct pay, and transferability mechanics.6:46–9:04 · Shayle pushing back 0/10 Tax Equity Market Dynamics and Expanding the Investor Pool Kann prompts the guests on potential supply and demand imbalances in tax equity. Von Ossen and Schultz explain how transferability lowers the structural hurdles for non-traditional corporate investors.9:05–12:38 · Shayle pushing back 0/10 Impact on Renewable Energy Mergers, Acquisitions, and Pipeline Valuations Kann leads into M&A trends and highlights the standalone storage tax credit. Schultz refines the storage perspective by pointing out both the ITC qualification and the advanced manufacturing production credit.12:39–15:27 · Shayle pushing back 0/10 Incentives for Emerging Technologies and Reflections on Bill Surprises Kann inquires about emerging sectors like carbon capture and surprises in the bill. Schultz discusses direct pay for early-stage carbon sequestration while von Ossen reflects humorously on her past predictions.

speaking balance: gold is Shayle, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Shayle 49.5% · guest 50.5%0:00 · Shayle 49.5% · guest 50.5%3:00 · Shayle 26.3% · guest 73.7%3:00 · Shayle 26.3% · guest 73.7%6:00 · Shayle 6.8% · guest 93.2%6:00 · Shayle 6.8% · guest 93.2%9:00 · Shayle 20.6% · guest 79.4%9:00 · Shayle 20.6% · guest 79.4%12:00 · Shayle 23% · guest 77%12:00 · Shayle 23% · guest 77%15:00 · Shayle 68.7% · guest 31.3%15:00 · Shayle 68.7% · guest 31.3%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 11:38 Kayla Schultz tempers solar outpacing expectations

Schultz gently questions whether energy storage will outpace solar, noting that only time will tell despite strong projections.

 Hardest push from Shayle ▶ 6:46 Shayle Kann queries supply-demand tax equity imbalance

Kann presses on whether the influx of new activity under the bill might exacerbate existing bottlenecks in the tax equity investor market.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 4:36 Kayla Schultz educates on ITC/PTC adders and direct pay

Schultz lays out the granular mechanisms of domestic content adders, energy community boosts up to 50%, and transferability rules.

 Shayle holds their own ▶ 10:24 Shayle Kann frames the historic standalone storage credit

Kann demonstrates strong sector knowledge by detailing the long-standing industry push and eventual breakthrough for standalone energy storage credits.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicShayle as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementShayle pushing backWhy
Macroeconomic Outlook for America's Decarbonization and Energy Transition 4500 Kann sets up the macro framework and asks the guests to unpack the technical details of the bill. Schultz and von Ossen provide a deep breakdown of ITC and PTC elections, adders, direct pay, and transferability mechanics.
Tax Equity Market Dynamics and Expanding the Investor Pool 4400 Kann prompts the guests on potential supply and demand imbalances in tax equity. Von Ossen and Schultz explain how transferability lowers the structural hurdles for non-traditional corporate investors.
Impact on Renewable Energy Mergers, Acquisitions, and Pipeline Valuations 5400 Kann leads into M&A trends and highlights the standalone storage tax credit. Schultz refines the storage perspective by pointing out both the ITC qualification and the advanced manufacturing production credit.
Incentives for Emerging Technologies and Reflections on Bill Surprises 4300 Kann inquires about emerging sectors like carbon capture and surprises in the bill. Schultz discusses direct pay for early-stage carbon sequestration while von Ossen reflects humorously on her past predictions.

Statements from this episode (9)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Schultz: Clients paused clean energy deals to shift from ITC to PTC
“After it passed the Senate, I think there was, you know, some of my clients started putting deals a little bit on pause so they could rerun the numbers. For example, I had one client that was entering into an ITC transaction, had already had most of the negoti…”
Kayla Schultz Oct 24, 2022 ▶ 1:53
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Schultz: IRA expected to drive $300B in incremental clean energy investment
“With the passage of this bill, the renewable technologies is expected to increase by 30% or so, and it's expected to generate upwards of three hundred billion of incremental investment just due to the passage of this bill.”
Kayla Schultz Oct 24, 2022 ▶ 3:28
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Von Ossen: IRA credit adders boost renewable project values up to 100%
“I mean, we were seeing tax credits slowly phasing down, so projects that were at a 22% eligibility are now potentially 50% ITC projects. I mean, that's significant in economics. That's, you know, 30%, 50%, hundred percent increase in value on what some of thes…”
Britta von Ossen Oct 24, 2022 ▶ 5:48
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Von Ossen: Resolving new IRA tax credit mechanisms will take a year
“I think there's still a number of questions to be answered about a handful of the newer provisions, including the adders and how do you confirm eligibility for those, but also how the transferability works, how the direct pay potentially works factors like can…”
Britta von Ossen Oct 24, 2022 ▶ 6:14
Assertion Supported
Von Ossen: Extended IRA time horizons attract new tax equity investors
“So, there continues to be a supply-demand imbalance. The supply of tax equity is limited. What this does is extend the time frame of when tax credit investing is a viable option for a lot of these groups, which is bringing new investors into the industry.”
Britta von Ossen Oct 24, 2022 ▶ 6:59
Assertion Supported
Von Ossen: Tax equity demand skyrocketed with new IRA-eligible technologies
“Now, demand has also skyrocketed, right, with the carbon capture, with the storage, with all of these new technologies. So I think the imbalance continues, but, you know, both demand and supply are increasing.”
Britta von Ossen Oct 24, 2022 ▶ 8:18
Insight
Schultz: IRA tax credit transferability is vastly simpler than traditional tax equity
“A lot of corporations that we work with have to set up established teams, hire advisors, legal and accounting advisors, just to get their heads around the tax equity transactions. But the transferability is a lot simpler to digest.”
Kayla Schultz Oct 24, 2022 ▶ 8:49
Assertion Supported
Schultz: IRA creates standalone storage ITC and 2023 advanced manufacturing credits
“Standalone storage can now claim the investment tax credit, and then there's also a new advanced manufacturing production credit that will go into effect in 2023, and that includes some provisions for equipment manufactured for energy storage.”
Kayla Schultz Oct 24, 2022 ▶ 10:47
Prediction Partly held up
Von Ossen: California and Texas will drive energy storage pipelines to triple
“I think projections have them increasing something like three times over the next 18 months primarily driven by markets like California and Texas.”
Britta von Ossen Oct 24, 2022 ▶ 12:04
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