Nov 3, 2022 · 59m · catalyst
Getting more energy on the wires
0:00 / 0:00
gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
Host Laura Pierpoint and grid policy expert Liza Reed explore the physical, regulatory, and technological challenges facing the United States electrical grid, examining how grid-enhancing technologies, advanced conductors, and federal permitting reform can unlock transmission capacity for clean energy.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. How this is scored →
Shayle as informed peer 6.0 Guest teaching 5.5 Guest disagreement 0.4 Shayle pushing back 0.4
speaking balance: gold is Shayle, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 33:25 Liza rejects the premise that new grid tech is untested globally
Liza firmly reframes the narrative by emphasizing that GETs and advanced wires are not newly invented technologies, but proven international systems that US utilities have lagged in adopting.
Hardest push from Shayle ▶ 43:24 Laura presses on undergrounding OPEX and fault repair obstaclesLaura challenges the optimism around undergrounding bulk transmission lines by pointing out the substantial operational and repair detection costs if underground lines fail.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 30:10 Liza breaks down FACTS devices and impedance physicsLiza provides an in-depth technical explanation of how power flow controllers manipulate inductance and capacitance parameters to automatically reroute power around congested lines.
Shayle holds their own ▶ 35:13 Laura cites direct utility regulatory experience on Capex disincentivesLaura demonstrates strong subject matter expertise by explaining how 19th-century regulatory rate-basing models favor hardware Capex while penalizing software and operational optimization.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Shayle as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Shayle pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Episode Prologue: The Transmission Dilemma | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Introductory prologue featuring host monologue, show teasers, and sponsor reads. Because there is no active conversational debate, all interaction scores are baseline zero. | |
| Transmission Grid Architecture and Global Systems | 6 | 5 | 1 | 0 | Laura Pierpoint shares personal background at DOE Electricity Office and frames high-level grid structure, while Liza Reed details grid voltage tiers and international contrasts with Europe and China. | |
| AC vs. DC Physics and Advanced Wire Materials | 7 | 6 | 0 | 0 | Pierpoint asks technical questions regarding physical conductor construction and adds context on California wildfire risks from line sag. Reed explains ACSR construction, composite cores, and AC versus DC physics. | |
| Regional Interconnections and Grid Stability | 6 | 6 | 0 | 0 | Pierpoint sets up the three primary US interconnections, and Reed explains back-to-back HVDC converter stations used at seams to maintain AC stability. | |
| Winter Storm Uri and Interregional Transmission Policy | 7 | 6 | 1 | 1 | Pierpoint provides detailed context on Texas ERCOT's jurisdictional independence, while Reed delivers a deep analysis of grid failures during Winter Storm Uri and FERC interregional task force efforts. | |
| Mid-Roll Sponsors: Bloom Energy and Engie | 5 | 6 | 0 | 0 | Following mid-roll sponsor segments, Pierpoint prompts on the growing generator interconnection backlog, and Reed explains the mechanics and perverse incentives plaguing multi-year interconnection queues. | |
| Grid-Enhancing Technologies and Line Reconductoring | 6 | 7 | 1 | 0 | Reed catalogues grid-enhancing technologies (GETs) including dynamic line rating, automated study software, FACTS power flow controllers, and advanced reconductoring, while Pierpoint synthesizes these breakthroughs. | |
| Regulatory Disincentives, Medium-Voltage DC, and Non-Wires Solutions | 8 | 6 | 1 | 1 | Pierpoint draws on utility industry experience regarding Capex-weighted rate of return disincentives for SaaS and non-wires alternatives. Reed elaborates on medium-voltage DC and the complementary role of non-wires options. | |
| Undergrounding High-Voltage Direct Current Lines | 6 | 7 | 1 | 2 | Pierpoint presses Reed on operational expenses and fault-location challenges for buried lines. Reed clarifies how voltage source converter HVDC along highway rights-of-way dramatically reduces undergrounding cost premiums. | |
| High-Temperature Superconductors for Compact High-Capacity Transmission | 7 | 6 | 0 | 1 | Pierpoint references startup VEIR and queries thermal management maintenance overhead for cryogenic cables. Reed explains high-temperature superconductor physics and overhead encasement advantages. | |
| Electrification, Distributed Energy Resources, and Resilience | 7 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Pierpoint highlights post-IRA electrification and DER growth, prompting Reed to emphasize how distributed energy and storage complement bulk transmission for disaster resilience. | |
| Permitting Reform and Federal Transmission Siting | 7 | 6 | 0 | 0 | Pierpoint and Reed discuss federal transmission siting reform under the Manchin proposals, contrasting federal natural gas pipeline siting authority with fragmented state-level electricity jurisdiction. |
Statements from this episode (18)
Pierpoint: US built only 386 miles of high-voltage transmission in 2021
“In the U.S., we have about 640,000 miles of high voltage transmission lines. Most of these were built in the fifties and sixties, and most of them are operating at full capacity. Last year, we built a grand 386 miles of new line, and our record for the last de…”
Pierpoint: Current transmission construction rates will delay net zero goals by decades
“At our current building rates, we'll overshoot our net zero goals by decades.”
Reed: US has 400,000 transmission miles, but only 25% are high-voltage
“So we've got about 400,000, just over 400,000 miles of transmission lines in our, in this country, and most of them are lower voltage, so they're still, like, fairly local in terms of how far they can move power. I think it's two-thirds of them. Actually three…”
Reed: China Built Massive Multi-Hundred-Mile DC Transmission Grid
“China had a massive build out of transmission. Going back to technology, most of our grid, almost all of our grid is alternating current. That's the AC I was referring to. And most grids around the world are AC. China did a massive DC build out over the past c…”
Reed: US Interregional Grid Interconnections Have Stagnated Despite Energy Growth
“In fact, we recently did a data analysis to show sort of how the grids are interconnected and illustrate that compared to the amount of energy that the grids are using, these interconnects are just incredibly small, right? They really haven't grown over time.”
Reed: External Transmission Can Support Under 1% of ERCOT Load
“And then ERCOT is incredibly isolated. So there's one or two ERCOT has some minimal Back to back and some minimal AC at sort of very low voltage, but incredibly isolated. I think less than one percent of their load or something is available via transmission. C…”
Reed: Non-ERCOT Texas avoided prolonged blackouts through grid interconnections
“And even the parts of Texas that were not run by ERCOT, especially, right, were experiencing this extreme weather, but did not have this massive multi-day blackout problem. Because they had so much more power available and were able to share it.”
Reed: Over one terawatt of US generation is stuck in interconnection queues
“There's more than, I want to say there's more than a terawatt of energy generation in these queues across the United States that aren't able to come online because we don't have the necessary transmission to support them.”
Reed: US grid interconnection wait times now reach four years or longer
“And so those queues, you know, were, used to be a couple of years, and now are two, are four years or longer, just to get out of the queue.”
Reed: Reconductoring with composite core lines can double grid capacity
“It's a lot faster to add capacity to the grid by just taking out old steel reinforced lines and replacing them with composite reinforced lines. You can get multiple times the capacity. I think two X is the number that I hear most hear quoted the most.”
Reed: Utility regulations incentivize building new transmission over maximizing existing systems
“You can get a rate of return on new capital expenditures, which is new transmission lines, but you don't get that same benefit as an investor-owned utility for just maximizing what you already have in your system, right? In most places, right?”
Reed: Decarbonizing the grid requires at least doubling transmission capacity
“The scale that we need to decarbonize the electricity system means we need to get twice as much transmission capacity or more. In the coming decades.”
Reed: Underground AC transmission is physically limited to 40-100 miles
“Undergrounding AC is actually incredibly difficult. You can only go 40 to a hundred miles, kind of depending on how much, how you design the system and how you want to control it, because the ground itself, like, actually creates Stability issues for moving AC…”
Reed: Underground HVDC may cost only 1x to 2x of overhead lines
“There's some estimates out there that you might actually be closer to parity as opposed to the sort of five to 10 X that's normally cited. It could be closer to one to two X if you think about power over distance. So mile by mile you're more expensive, but gig…”
Reed: Superconductors allow high-capacity transmission on much shorter towers
“So the benefit of a high temperature superconductor is you can jack up that current without having to jack up the voltage, and you can still get a lot of power. The reason this matters is that voltage is what determines the height of those towers.”
Reed: FERC has held federal gas pipeline siting authority for over 80 years
“For natural gas infrastructure in the U.S., that happens at the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. They've had this authority for more than 80 years that pipelines used in interstate commerce are cited at the federal level”
Reed: Federal backstop authority for transmission line siting has never been used
“Transmission has always been permitted exclusively at the state level. There's been some very, very narrow federal authority established for it, but it's kind of this multi-step, elaborate process. There's a study, and then someone else has to review it, and t…”