StarZero All shows Try the podcast clipper →

Jan 18, 2023 · 21m · catalyst

Introducing: With Great Power, a show about the people building the future grid

Carl Popham · 13m spoken Brad Langley · 4m spoken Stephen Lacey · 1m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Host Brad Langley interviews Carl Popham of Austin Energy to explore how electric utilities can accelerate EV adoption through customer-centric tools, dealership collaboration, forward-looking leadership, and smart grid integration.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. How this is scored →

Shayle as informed peer 3.5 Guest teaching 5.3 Guest disagreement 0.3 Shayle pushing back 0.0
05100:0010:0020:001:46–5:12 · Shayle as informed peer 4/10 Addressing Dealership Barriers with the EV Buyer's Guide Langley establishes the narrative around dealership friction in EV sales. Popham details the specific sales economics, explaining how commissions and longer transaction times disincentivize salespeople from selling electric vehicles.5:16–10:02 · Shayle as informed peer 4/10 Carl Popham's Early Career in Emerging Internet and Mobile Tech Langley draws on technical history to ask about Popham's early work with foundational web and mobile technologies. Popham explains early internet architecture from Telnet to Port 80 and the emergence of web-enabled phones.10:02–14:53 · Shayle as informed peer 3/10 Founding Austin Energy's EV Team and Utility Leadership Advice Langley prompts Popham for strategic guidance for utility operators looking to launch EV initiatives. Popham provides a detailed management playbook on setting a public strategy to avoid being sidelined in regulatory policy.14:53–19:38 · Shayle as informed peer 3/10 The Five EV Pillars and Grid Integration Opportunities Langley inquires about utility scope and risks of inaction. Popham corrects common industry assumptions by explaining that EV adoption is not simple load growth, highlighting beneficial off-peak charging profiles and high demand response compliance.1:46–5:12 · Guest teaching 5/10 Addressing Dealership Barriers with the EV Buyer's Guide Langley establishes the narrative around dealership friction in EV sales. Popham details the specific sales economics, explaining how commissions and longer transaction times disincentivize salespeople from selling electric vehicles.5:16–10:02 · Guest teaching 5/10 Carl Popham's Early Career in Emerging Internet and Mobile Tech Langley draws on technical history to ask about Popham's early work with foundational web and mobile technologies. Popham explains early internet architecture from Telnet to Port 80 and the emergence of web-enabled phones.10:02–14:53 · Guest teaching 5/10 Founding Austin Energy's EV Team and Utility Leadership Advice Langley prompts Popham for strategic guidance for utility operators looking to launch EV initiatives. Popham provides a detailed management playbook on setting a public strategy to avoid being sidelined in regulatory policy.14:53–19:38 · Guest teaching 6/10 The Five EV Pillars and Grid Integration Opportunities Langley inquires about utility scope and risks of inaction. Popham corrects common industry assumptions by explaining that EV adoption is not simple load growth, highlighting beneficial off-peak charging profiles and high demand response compliance.1:46–5:12 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Addressing Dealership Barriers with the EV Buyer's Guide Langley establishes the narrative around dealership friction in EV sales. Popham details the specific sales economics, explaining how commissions and longer transaction times disincentivize salespeople from selling electric vehicles.5:16–10:02 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Carl Popham's Early Career in Emerging Internet and Mobile Tech Langley draws on technical history to ask about Popham's early work with foundational web and mobile technologies. Popham explains early internet architecture from Telnet to Port 80 and the emergence of web-enabled phones.10:02–14:53 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Founding Austin Energy's EV Team and Utility Leadership Advice Langley prompts Popham for strategic guidance for utility operators looking to launch EV initiatives. Popham provides a detailed management playbook on setting a public strategy to avoid being sidelined in regulatory policy.14:53–19:38 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Five EV Pillars and Grid Integration Opportunities Langley inquires about utility scope and risks of inaction. Popham corrects common industry assumptions by explaining that EV adoption is not simple load growth, highlighting beneficial off-peak charging profiles and high demand response compliance.1:46–5:12 · Shayle pushing back 0/10 Addressing Dealership Barriers with the EV Buyer's Guide Langley establishes the narrative around dealership friction in EV sales. Popham details the specific sales economics, explaining how commissions and longer transaction times disincentivize salespeople from selling electric vehicles.5:16–10:02 · Shayle pushing back 0/10 Carl Popham's Early Career in Emerging Internet and Mobile Tech Langley draws on technical history to ask about Popham's early work with foundational web and mobile technologies. Popham explains early internet architecture from Telnet to Port 80 and the emergence of web-enabled phones.10:02–14:53 · Shayle pushing back 0/10 Founding Austin Energy's EV Team and Utility Leadership Advice Langley prompts Popham for strategic guidance for utility operators looking to launch EV initiatives. Popham provides a detailed management playbook on setting a public strategy to avoid being sidelined in regulatory policy.14:53–19:38 · Shayle pushing back 0/10 The Five EV Pillars and Grid Integration Opportunities Langley inquires about utility scope and risks of inaction. Popham corrects common industry assumptions by explaining that EV adoption is not simple load growth, highlighting beneficial off-peak charging profiles and high demand response compliance.

speaking balance: gold is Shayle, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Shayle 0% · guest 100%0:00 · Shayle 0% · guest 100%3:00 · Shayle 0% · guest 100%3:00 · Shayle 0% · guest 100%6:00 · Shayle 0% · guest 100%6:00 · Shayle 0% · guest 100%9:00 · Shayle 0% · guest 100%9:00 · Shayle 0% · guest 100%12:00 · Shayle 0% · guest 100%12:00 · Shayle 0% · guest 100%15:00 · Shayle 0% · guest 100%15:00 · Shayle 0% · guest 100%18:00 · Shayle 0% · guest 100%18:00 · Shayle 0% · guest 100%21:00 · Shayle 0% · guest 100%21:00 · Shayle 0% · guest 100%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 15:15 Pushing back against conventional utility load framing

Popham politely pushes back against standard industry thinking, arguing that utilities mistakenly simplify EV adoption as generic load growth.

 Hardest push from Shayle ▶ 14:47 Pressing on the phrase going wide

Langley directly prompts Popham to define and justify what he means by utilities needing to showcase how wide they can go.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 17:40 Grid load dynamics and zero opt-out pilots

Popham educates the host on how EV charging profiles leverage existing nighttime transmission capacity and outperform air conditioning demand response with zero customer opt-outs.

 Shayle holds their own ▶ 8:43 Citing Popham's early pre-smartphone white paper

Langley displays deep background preparation by citing Popham's early Capgemini white paper on first-generation web-enabled phones before the term smartphone existed.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicShayle as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementShayle pushing backWhy
Addressing Dealership Barriers with the EV Buyer's Guide 4500 Langley establishes the narrative around dealership friction in EV sales. Popham details the specific sales economics, explaining how commissions and longer transaction times disincentivize salespeople from selling electric vehicles.
Carl Popham's Early Career in Emerging Internet and Mobile Tech 4500 Langley draws on technical history to ask about Popham's early work with foundational web and mobile technologies. Popham explains early internet architecture from Telnet to Port 80 and the emergence of web-enabled phones.
Founding Austin Energy's EV Team and Utility Leadership Advice 3500 Langley prompts Popham for strategic guidance for utility operators looking to launch EV initiatives. Popham provides a detailed management playbook on setting a public strategy to avoid being sidelined in regulatory policy.
The Five EV Pillars and Grid Integration Opportunities 3610 Langley inquires about utility scope and risks of inaction. Popham corrects common industry assumptions by explaining that EV adoption is not simple load growth, highlighting beneficial off-peak charging profiles and high demand response compliance.

Statements from this episode (8)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Popham: Selling an EV takes two hours versus 40 minutes for gas.
“Historically, to sell an EV could take up to two hours, and to sell a gas car takes 40 minutes.”
Carl Popham Jan 18, 2023 ▶ 2:39
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Popham: Most dealership salespeople earn lower commissions selling EVs
“And then for various reasons based on how commissions work, typically the salesperson on most dealerships, not all, would then get paid less.”
Carl Popham Jan 18, 2023 ▶ 2:48
Insight
Popham: Utilities must align with dealership profitability to drive EV sales
“Ultimately, you're not engaging the dealerships because they're going to help you with your Austin Climate and Equity Plan or utility financial health goals or anything like that. It is, the mindset is, how can we get EVs through you to your customers? As quic…”
Carl Popham Jan 18, 2023 ▶ 4:48
Assertion Supported
Langley: Transportation has surpassed the grid as America's largest emissions source.
“The grid is no longer the biggest source of carbon emissions in America. It's transportation.”
Brad Langley Jan 18, 2023 ▶ 5:44
Insight
Popham: Utilities must lead publicly on EV strategy or lose regulatory influence
“The first thing you should kind of do as utility is decide what your strategy and your outcomes are and then make that public. Have a public vision to your strategy you know, be a speaker and be seen as a leader, because what's going to happen is there's a lot…”
Carl Popham Jan 18, 2023 ▶ 13:00
Insight
Popham: Treating EV charging as standard load growth misses unique opportunities.
“And I think a lot of utilities mistakenly call EV growth as load growth. I think that simplifies it, because the load curves, both 24 hours and seasonally, look completely different. It's not more buildings. It's not more air conditioning. EVs charge different…”
Carl Popham Jan 18, 2023 ▶ 15:47
Insight
Popham: Off-peak EV charging soaks up excess grid capacity profitably.
“EVs charge a lot at night, they charge in the morning, so they're charged off-peak. So it's very profitable in that You don't have to build all this new infrastructure like there's new buildings. It's soaking up excess capacity of your transmission and distrib…”
Carl Popham Jan 18, 2023 ▶ 18:15
Disclosure
Popham: Austin Energy saw zero opt-outs for EV demand response.
“In our pilots, we had zero opt-outs in shifting EV load, and we had the expected number of opt-outs in air conditioning load.”
Carl Popham Jan 18, 2023 ▶ 19:04
Made with StarZero

Turn any episode into a week of clips.

This entire site, over 200 episodes transcribed, diarized, checked and made playable, runs on the StarZero media pipeline. Drop in your own episode and the podcast clipper finds the moments worth sharing, cuts them, captions them, and reframes them for every feed.

Try the podcast clipper Learn more