Sep 21, 2023 · 43m · catalyst
Fixing interconnection
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of Catalyst, host Shayle Kann and energy expert Tyler Norris analyze the systemic interconnection delays choking U.S. clean energy deployment, contrasting traditional queue gridlock with Texas's successful connect-and-manage model to propose actionable regulatory reforms.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Shayle holds 24.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Shayle as informed peer 4.4 Guest teaching 4.1 Guest disagreement 0.8 Shayle pushing back 1.8
speaking balance: gold is Shayle, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 19:59 Tyler refutes the size-of-Texas premise using PJM data
Tyler firmly counters the premise that Texas's boom is just a product of geographic scale by highlighting that PJM has double the peak load but a fraction of the interconnection rate.
Hardest push from Shayle ▶ 34:20 Shayle pushes back on capacity market limitationsShayle pushes back against the framing that capacity markets inherently block adopting Texas's energy-only interconnection mechanism.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 7:13 Tyler illustrates queue dysfunction via Eisenhower analogyTyler educates listeners by constructing an analogy of 1950s highway funding to expose how absurd current transmission interconnection rules are.
Shayle holds their own ▶ 34:20 Shayle demonstrates structural market expertiseShayle shows deep market understanding by cutting through technical jargon to argue that energy-only interconnection can coexist with capacity markets, forcing Tyler to agree.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Shayle as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Shayle pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Network Rebranding to Latitude Media and Upcoming Events | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Introductory announcement monologue by Stephen Lacey regarding company rebranding and upcoming conferences. | |
| Catalyst Introduction and ERCOT Interconnection Teaser | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Host monologue setting the stage for the interconnection crisis, outlining load growth from EVs and data centers before welcoming the guest. | |
| The Interstate Highway Analogy and Queue Backlog | 3 | 6 | 1 | 1 | Tyler Norris opens with an extended 1953 highway system analogy to frame transmission interconnection dysfunction and shares Berkeley Lab queue statistics. | |
| Evaluating FERC Order 2023 and Cluster Studies | 6 | 4 | 1 | 2 | Shayle demonstrates a firm grasp of cluster studies versus serial studies, and summarizes FERC Order 2023 while Tyler explains its practical nuances. | |
| Texas's Clean Energy Boom and Interconnection Success | 5 | 5 | 1 | 4 | Shayle tests the ERCOT success narrative by asking if Texas's high deployment is merely a function of state land size, prompting Tyler to contrast it against PJM. | |
| ERCOT's Energy-Only Interconnection Model Explained | 3 | 7 | 1 | 1 | Tyler gives a detailed masterclass on ERCOT's energy-only interconnection framework, economic curtailment, and market-driven transmission upgrades. | |
| Sponsor Messages: Bloom Energy, ENGIE, and EnergyHub | 6 | 4 | 1 | 2 | Following mid-roll sponsor reads, Shayle effectively translates ERCOT's curtailment tradeoff into layperson terms and probes whether developers misjudge curtailment risks. | |
| System Impact Studies and Non-ERCOT Capacity Markets | 7 | 4 | 1 | 5 | Shayle directly challenges the notion that having capacity markets prevents RTOs outside Texas from adopting ERCOT-style energy-only interconnection, prompting Tyler to concede the point. | |
| Inefficiencies and Risks of the Traditional Interconnection System | 4 | 6 | 1 | 1 | Tyler outlines the multi-dimensional inefficiencies of legacy interconnection systems across temporal, bureaucratic, economic, and reliability vectors. | |
| Practical Interconnection Reforms for Non-ERCOT Markets | 6 | 5 | 1 | 2 | Shayle frames realistic regulatory solutions while Tyler details practical two-step study reforms and proactive long-term cost-benefit transmission planning. |
Statements from this episode (13)
Kann: Grid interconnection is rapidly becoming the energy transition's biggest barrier
“I think that interconnection, both of generation and of load, is rapidly becoming the single biggest barrier to the energy transition.”
Norris: US interconnection queue grew 40% in 2022 to over 2,000 GW
“So, in twenty-twenty-two alone, the backlog of projects in interconnection queues waiting to connect to the grid Grew by 40%. It brought the total to just over 2000 gigawatts. 80% of this growth, growth was driven by solar and storage projects, and for compari…”
Norris: US power project interconnection time has doubled to four-plus years
“And at the same time, we've seen, and this has been documented by Lawrence Berkeley National Lab, the time required to interconnect has approximately doubled from around 15 years ago. So it used to be that the typical duration from interconnection requests to …”
Norris: Cluster studies lack proof of speeding up grid interconnection queues
“What I think is fair to say is that we don't really have good empirical evidence, ah, to prove or disprove this hypothesis yet. There have been, ah, transmission providers that have shifted to cluster studies in recent years. I was very involved in one of thos…”
Norris: Texas has 40 GW of wind capacity, nearly 30% of US total
“Texas has around 40 gigawatts of installed wind. It's three times more than any other state, so Iowa is the next at about 12 and a half gigs. This is just under 30% of all U.S. Wind power capacity.”
Norris: Texas reached 17 GW of utility-scale solar, rivaling California
“ERCOT is now at about 17 gigawatts of utility scale solar installed. The state at large at around 20 gigawatts of all solar. So it's now number two in the U.S. Just behind California. And the utility scale side now appears effectively equivalent with Californi…”
Norris: ERCOT connects energy projects 2.5 times faster than PJM
“The overall peak load in PJM is approximately two times that in ERCOT, and yet PJM's interconnection rate overall for all resources over the past two years has been approximately 2.5 times less than ERCOT.”
Norris: ERCOT decouples grid upgrades from interconnection to speed up projects
“The defining feature of ERCOT's interconnection process is that they don't rely on the interconnection process itself to identify and pay for grid upgrades. And this enables them to interconnect projects much more quickly and at much lower cost.”
Norris: ERCOT's planning process pursues fewer proactive grid upgrades than needed
“It's worth noting that there are some really significant limitations to ERCOT's transmission planning process, and there are a lot of concerns that it doesn't Incorporate the longer-term benefits of these upgrades, and the result is that they aren't, they prob…”
Norris: High ERCOT interconnection rates are driven by generators accepting curtailment risk
“What we're seeing is that a very, very large number of generators Believe that they are able to manage this risk, and that's contributing to this high interconnection rate.”
Norris: Non-ERCOT US power markets are unlikely to adopt energy-only models
“So we're unlikely to see other markets go in an energy-only direction, and the question is whether we can incorporate some of
The learnings and the process improvements that ERCOT has achieved into this alternative framework where you have both energy and capa…”
Norris: Proactive transmission grid upgrades save ratepayers money over queue-driven ones
“We're, what we're seeing more and more is that, ah, it will save rate payers money if we pursue these upgrades via separate proactive process, and that's for a couple reasons. One is, you don't have to go back incrementally and continue upgrading the system in…”