Nov 18, 2025 · 31m · catalyst
New Mexico proves America can still build [partner content]
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this interview, New Mexico Cabinet Secretaries Rob Black and Jim Kenney demonstrate how the state combines collaborative, nonpartisan governance, a $65 billion sovereign wealth fund, and cutting-edge national laboratory research to rapidly build advanced clean energy infrastructure and foster economic growth.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Shayle holds 15.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Shayle as informed peer 3.1 Guest teaching 2.9 Guest disagreement 0.1 Shayle pushing back 0.1
speaking balance: gold is Shayle, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 3:36 Reframing political division as a failure of engagement
Kenney gently pushes back on conventional fatalism around national gridlock, arguing that leaders give up too early rather than doing the hard work of negotiating.
Hardest push from Shayle ▶ 9:40 Challenging regulatory balance in fossil fuel extractionKann presses the guests on how they balance strict environmental mandates with expedited clean energy deployment amid national deregulatory trends.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 13:20 Educating on the $65B sovereign wealth fund strategyBlack details how New Mexico leverages its massive sovereign wealth fund to seed premier global deep tech venture funds, comparing the model to Singapore and Abu Dhabi.
Shayle holds their own ▶ 7:50 Synthesizing New Mexico's diverse resource strategyKann concisely summarizes New Mexico's multi-pronged energy strategy across fusion, geothermal, carbon capture, and hydrogen.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Shayle as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Shayle pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Overcoming National Gridlock Through Nonpartisan Collaboration | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | Kann sets up the episode by framing national gridlock in permitting and building, inviting the guests to contrast New Mexico's approach. Black and Kenney describe their nonpartisan culture and willingness to stay at the negotiating table. | |
| Transitioning to Clean Energy and Meeting Baseline Industrial Demand | 3 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Kann asks how New Mexico entered the clean energy market and what is at stake. The guests explain the 2019 Energy Transition Act, the state's deep scientific heritage, and the necessity of balancing carbon reduction with heavy industrial base load power. | |
| Managing Firm Load and Energy Portfolio Diversity | 4 | 3 | 0 | 1 | Kann prompts the guests on how New Mexico balances strict oil and gas regulations with rapid clean energy deployment amid federal regulatory swings. Kenney and Black outline their codified state laws, 60-day site readiness certifications, and microgrid legislation. | |
| Leveraging the $65 Billion Sovereign Wealth Fund for Deep Tech | 3 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Kann asks about the scale and deployment strategy of the state's sovereign wealth fund. Black explains the $65 billion fund's partnership with top deep-tech venture funds, drawing parallels to global sovereign funds in Abu Dhabi and Singapore. | |
| The Incentive Capital Stack and Cross-Agency Financing | 3 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Kann inquires how sovereign investments pair with tax credits and grant structures. Black and Kenney detail New Mexico's comprehensive capital stack, including low-interest environmental financing, high-wage job credits, and R&D incentives. | |
| Establishing New Mexico as a Global Hub for Fusion Energy | 3 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Kann asks about the vision for making New Mexico a global hub for fusion energy. Black and Kenney discuss partnerships with Pacific Fusion, national lab assets, and permitting turnarounds under six months. | |
| Meeting Industrial Needs with Green Power, IP Security, and Specialized Talent | 3 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Kann asks what clean energy companies look for when choosing facility locations. The guests highlight access to green power, robust intellectual property protection, specialized Permian Basin drilling expertise, and advanced lab personnel. | |
| Investing Cradle-to-Career in Workforce Livability and Quality of Life | 3 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Kann asks how the state addresses skilled workforce shortages and cost-of-living constraints. Black explains the state's cradle-to-career model, highlighting universal free child care and tuition-free college funded by the sovereign wealth fund. | |
| Proving Government Can Plan and Execute at Scale | 3 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Kann wraps up by asking what overarching message New Mexico offers to the rest of the nation. Black and Kenney emphasize that government can successfully blend high-level policy design with rapid practical execution. |
Statements from this episode (16)
Black: Fission, fusion, and fracking were all invented in New Mexico
“Fission, fusion, and fracking were all invented in New Mexico.”
Black: New Mexico produces lowest carbon-intensity oil and gas anywhere
“So we've got the lowest carbon intense barrel of oil and unit of natural gas anywhere.”
Black: New Mexico ranks second in US oil and third in gas production
“We're number two in oil production, number three in natural gas production in the United States.”
Black: New Mexico hosts the only US uranium enrichment plant
“We have the only uranium enrichment plant in the United States today is in New Mexico.”
Black: New Mexico operates the most productive geothermal well in the US
“We have the most productive geothermal well now operating in the US happening in New Mexico.”
New Mexico enacted site readiness program with 60-day review timelines
“In the last legislative session, we passed several pieces of legislation that, one, that create a site readiness program where we're able to pre-deploy and certify a site as an economic development site, help put infrastructure in advance prior to a customer e…”
Black: New Mexico passed microgrid legislation for 20MW+ energy users
“We also passed a microgrid bill, That allows users of over 20 megawatts, so I think large advanced manufacturing or hyperscalers to build microgrids very quickly in the state”
Black: New Mexico's sovereign wealth fund will probably surpass Alaska within three years
“It's, it is the second largest in, in the U.S., only behind Alaska, and we think we'll probably surpass Alaska in the next three years or so.”
Black: New Mexico allocated $2B to partner with top deep tech VCs
“What they've done is they've taken about two billion of that and put it into a venture fund that is working with the 25 to 30 largest deep tech venture funds in the world.”
Black: XGS chose New Mexico for $1B plant due to state-backed VC fund
“It's also why XGS Geothermal chose to build a 150 megawatt, billion dollar geothermal plant in New Mexico, because they were funded by a fund funded by the State Investment Council.”
Black: New Mexico subsidizes up to 90% of new hire wages
“We have a high-wage jobs tax credit that's refundable at eight and a half percent of your employees' wages for four years. We're going to pay between 50 and 90% of your employees' wages for the first six months that are in New Mexico on new hires, depending on…”
Black: New Mexico SIC created $300M+ advanced energy fund with Lowercarbon
“So, just a month ago, the State Investment Council Created a new fund of over three hundred million dollars, part with lower carbon energy to fund fusion and advanced energy projects in New Mexico.”
Kenney: New Mexico permits fusion facilities in 5-6 months vs. 18-24 in other states
“So, it takes us about five to six months to maybe get one of those permits out the door, And other states, it's taking 18 to 24 months to get those permits out the door.”
Black: New Mexico leads the US in R&D spend density and PhDs per capita
“While we have the highest density of R&D spend in the U.S. Here in New Mexico, We also have the most PhDs per capita in the United States, live here in New Mexico.”
Black: New Mexico is the only state offering free two- and four-year college
“That sovereign wealth fund not only invests in companies that are helping create jobs, it also pays for us as the only state in the country that provides free Two and four year college tuition for anybody who graduates from a high school in New Mexico , you ca…”