Nov 20, 2025 · 30m · catalyst
Looking for a turnaround in transmission
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of Catalyst, host Shail Khan and Grid Strategies president Rob Gramlich analyze the state of US transmission infrastructure, examining how surging AI data center demand, federal regulatory reforms, and advanced grid technologies are driving efforts to accelerate high-voltage line construction.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Shayle holds 23.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Shayle as informed peer 4.8 Guest teaching 3.5 Guest disagreement 1.0 Shayle pushing back 1.6
speaking balance: gold is Shayle, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 12:35 Gramlich rejects host skepticism regarding the DOE grid letter
Gramlich counters Kann's remark that the DOE order had nothing to do with transmission by insisting access without capacity is useless, proving transmission is central to the AI agenda.
Hardest push from Shayle ▶ 12:31 Kann pushes back on Secretary Wright's DOE letterKann directly challenges Gramlich's evidence by pointing out that the Secretary of Energy's rulemaking request did not specifically address transmission buildout.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 23:41 Gramlich outlines structural impediments to interregional grid planningGramlich educates the host on the legacy utility model of 3,000 fragmented utility fiefdoms and why multi-decadal federal reform is required to create interregional connectivity.
Shayle holds their own ▶ 18:52 Kann supplies exact SPP project valuationKann demonstrates sharp industry command by accurately citing the 8.6 billion dollar figure when Gramlich is uncertain between 10 billion and 20 billion dollars.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Shayle as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Shayle pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Listener Survey and Feedback Request | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Introductory housekeeping, survey announcement, and initial sponsor ads with no active host-guest dialogue. | |
| Framing the US Transmission Buildout Dilemma | 5 | 4 | 1 | 1 | The host sets up the macroeconomic context of transmission stagnation, while the guest outlines 2024 build stats and the regulatory mechanics of FERC Order 1920. | |
| Data Center Load Growth and Grid Access Mandates | 6 | 5 | 3 | 4 | The host challenges whether the energy secretary's letter genuinely addressed transmission buildout, prompting the guest to argue that grid access inherently demands capacity expansion. | |
| The Tragedy of the Commons in Grid Expansion | 6 | 2 | 0 | 1 | A collaborative exchange where the host frames the data center transmission bottleneck as a classic tragedy of the commons, which the guest enthusiastically endorses. | |
| Mid-Roll Sponsor Messages: Bloom Energy, Engie, Energy Hub | 6 | 3 | 1 | 2 | Following mid-roll ads, the host cites specific recent policy developments including SPP's approval value and DOE's cancellation of the Greenbelt Express loan guarantee. | |
| Near-Term Pipeline Across MISO, PJM, ERCOT, and CAISO | 4 | 5 | 1 | 1 | The guest delivers a comprehensive overview of regional 765 kV transmission planning across MISO, PJM, ERCOT, and CAISO. | |
| The Crucial Role of Federal Permitting Reform | 5 | 6 | 1 | 2 | The guest explains the structural historical barriers of 3,000 localized utilities and outlines the legislative provisions of the Manchin-Barrasso permitting reform bill. | |
| Grid-Enhancing Technologies and Advanced Conductors | 6 | 3 | 1 | 2 | The host immediately clarifies technical terminology by distinguishing reconductoring from new greenfield buildout during a discussion on advanced conductors. |
Statements from this episode (13)
Gramlich: Only 55 miles of high-voltage transmission were built in 2023
“There were only 55 miles of new High voltage transmission lines in twenty-twenty-three, which is down, you know, a trickle from the 4000 you know, that had been built 10 years prior”
Gramlich: US built around 880 miles of transmission in 2024
“There was an uptick to, like, 800 eighty-ish miles in twenty-twenty-four.”
Gramlich: Transmission lines completed in 2024 began 10 to 15 years ago
“These were lines that were, like, begun 10 or 15 years ago that just finally got finished.”
Gramlich: Hyperscalers fundamentally require full grid connection for five-nines reliability
“My understanding from the hyperscalers and the data center developers is that they all really, really want the Full network transmission service with all of the good, you know, backup and cushion that that network provides to their operations, and the Five Nin…”
Gramlich: Energy Secretary Wright submitted a grid access rulemaking to FERC
“The Secretary of Energy, Secretary Wright, wrote this letter to FERC saying, you know, here's a rulemaking I'm putting before you, On access to the grid.”
Gramlich: Hyperscalers avoid funding transmission lines because competitors benefit equally
“If they're in that intense competition, like, company to company, then it's of much less interest, just much less incentive For, you know, them to go work on the network that all of their competitors get to use just as much as they do. So that's classic public…”
Gramlich expects Grain Belt Express transmission project will proceed without DOE loan
“The project I expect will go forward. It's a great project.”
Gramlich: Four US grid regions are planning 765 kV lines
“You've got seven 65 KV AC plans. We mentioned SPP, but MISO in the more of the, like, the Great Lakes part of the Midwest and is looking at seven 65 PJM as well, and they just came out with a new very much more ambitious plan than we've seen from them. In the …”
Gramlich: CAISO is the only US grid operator expanding transmission nonstop
“California ISO has continued. They've been cranking along quietly for many years. Pretty much they're the only ones who have kind of gone nonstop on transmission.”
Gramlich: US transmission buildout could reach thousands of miles annually
“Yeah, we could be getting into the few thousand or more miles per year.”
Gramlich: US lacks planning system for inter-regional transmission lines
“We don't really have a system in place to build inter-regional transmission from region to region, MISO to SPP, or SPP to the interior west, or interior west to the coast, all of these neighboring regions, there's a massive untapped value of transmission there…”
Gramlich: US House will move quickly on NEPA permitting reform
“I expect to see the House moving pretty quickly on, on one piece, the NEPA-related piece and that'll be an important milestone.”
Gramlich: Some inter-regional transmission lines will get built without permitting reform
“Some of these lines are, you know, looking very, very promising, so I do think we will get some of those under the current regime, even if we don't get permitting reform, but if we get permitting reform you know, and or significant FERC action in the interregi…”