The Exchanges

Q What do you do? How do you reengage a failing marriage?

A I don't, I don't think it's actually that hard. I think you do the same things you do to screw it up. It's just, you just move it in the other direction. Like it, it, you know, the spiral of like apathy and disdain for each other is the exact same recipe as the spiral in the other direction of like reconnecting to each other. And that is, it's these little tiny things that you slightly reframe. You know, it, it, it's giving the other person just this little bit of grace. Like I genuinely think that, that, that the easiest thing we can do is just Start treating our partner with love and attention and connection. And I think it's a, it's a hundred percent return on your investment because either. You're going to reverse the spiral. So you're going to give your partner more grace, more attention, more praise, more love, more affection than maybe you owe them if we owe each other anything. And either that's going to inspire them to start doing the same and feeling good about you, this chicken or the egg thing, or you're going to have done this for a while and you're not going to get any return on an investment. And isn't it better to know? Isn't it better to know, like, wow, maybe this thing is really broken between us, and happily ever after might mean happily ever after separately. Like, I'm a believer in people splitting up when that's the right move for them. But I genuinely th…

AI assessment note: “Start treating our partner with love and attention and connection.”

Q not going to be able to handle it on September 18th with a free live event. Every attendee is going to get something that I wish I got 10 years ago. It would have made me way more money. So scan the link in the QR or click the description. Let's get back to my conversation with James Sexton. What percentage of divorces have, ah, you know, affairs or non-monogamy?

A I mean, a massive number. A massive, I would, I would be speculating, because it's hard to measure those things. I would say close to 70 to 80%. Where there's some, where infidelity played some part, in some degree. Like, how many is I've fallen in love with another person and I'm leaving you? That's a smaller percentage, although still shockingly high. Um, but there's a lot of like, yeah, he cheated and I took him back, or she cheated and I took her back, and then, you know, she still betrayed me in this way or that way. There's a lot of, yeah, they were flirting with this person, or like a lot of times, and again, I, I tend to think that I look at the infidelity, the financial impropriety, the dishonesty, all as the, the symptoms of the underlying illness, and the illness is the disconnection.

AI assessment note: “I would say close to 70 to 80%. Where there's some, where infidelity played”

Q And what do they typically look like? Like, what are the first signs that a marriage is going sideways and it's gonna end in your office?

A Yeah. You know, my mom used to say to me that it's hard to spot intelligence, but you can spot stupid a mile away. And so maybe intelligence is like an absence of stupid, right? So I think a lot of, a lot of what I would say are the red flags that a relationship is not likely to continue successfully are an absence of things rather than a presence, right? So like one of the things that's present in almost all the happy couples I know is this sense of like cheering for each other. You know, this sense of like, you're interested, you're interesting, and I'm cheering for you. When you have that, It's a superpower of sorts and the absence of it or the opposite of it. We've all been to the dinner party where like, whatever he says, she's rolling her eyes at it and whatever she says, he's like, not even really listening. And he's kind of like, wait, what? Like, yeah, okay, whatever, you know, and it's just a vibe. It's a feeling.

AI assessment note: “whatever he says, she's rolling her eyes at it and whatever she says, he's”

Q Is that why you say that, you know, affairs or breakups don't happen fast, they happen slowly?

A Well, they happen, I think they happen like bankruptcies happen, very slowly and then all at once. Like, I think it's very gradual, like falling feels like flying for a little while, you know, and then you hit the ground. And I think that there's this, this gradual feeling of like, we fall in love so fast, we connect so fast, it's a ball of hormones, it's all kinds of exciting. And then we're, you know, and again, I don't blame people for this. Like, I think you, you know, there's so much to do mentally. Like, the mental load is a real thing. Like, there's so much going on, and you, for some period of time in your life, like, finding your person is the thing. Like, there's so much you do, like, so much you wear, so much you think. Should you, where, how can I find my person? And then you find them, and you're like, oh, thank God. Like, one less thing. Like, now I can focus on the other stuff, because there's so much other stuff. And now I, by the way, I can probably do that better because I got like somebody there. That's great. You know, but then you kind of forget that I wanted this so bad. It was so important, you know, and it's easy to just let those other things come fully into focus. I mean, a baby is a great example of that. They require tremendous amounts of attention. They require tremendous amounts of emotional and physical bandwidth. And there is a part of you that k…

AI assessment note: “they happen like bankruptcies happen, very slowly and then all at once.”

Q What do you think the biggest mistake people make is when they're trying to persuade someone of something?

A Well, you know, we were talking about it before we, uh, we sat down that there's nothing less cool than trying to be cool. Yeah. And there's nothing worse than a salesman that you know is trying to sell you something. Like the best salesperson, you just have a problem and they want to help solve it. Like that's it. Like, and it's the same, the worst persuasion is blatantly obvious persuasion. Like it really, like the best advocacy does not look like advocacy. It's just me going, you know, your honor. I don't know. I'm not, listen, this guy walked into my office, hired me. If his wife had come in 15 minutes earlier, I'd probably be arguing the opposite of things. But you know what it seems to me looking at these two that, and now guess what? I'm advocating. It just doesn't sound like it. Like, it just doesn't look like it, because it's not so obvious. Like, it's hilarious, because when I litigate against, like, you know, like, like new lawyers, or like, self-represented parties, because now with AI, everybody thinks they're a fucking lawyer, and, and they're sitting there like, heretofore, had herein, I'm like, you're trying to sound so much like a lawyer, you don't sound a damn thing like a lawyer right now. Like, but, and look, I get it. Like, when I was a young lawyer, I remember I was one of my first big, big cases. Like I was probably five years into my practice. It was lik…

AI assessment note: “the worst persuasion is blatantly obvious persuasion. Like it really, like the best advocacy”

Q With this book, who do you hope reads it, and what do you hope they take away?

A Oh gosh, there's a whole bunch of people I hope read it. I hope that people who are just getting into relationships read it because I think it could give them some, some skills that they can use early on because I think it's a whole lot easier to stay in good shape than it is to get super heavy and then try to lose all the weight. So I think like it's a whole lot easier to like stay in love than it is to be in love, let it fall apart, neglect it, and then try to find your way back. But I hope that some people find it who maybe are starting that slide and, and say, okay, is there a way to turn this thing around? I hope some people who are way down deep in that valley of it will read it and either realize, okay, maybe there's a path or, okay, there isn't. Because I think You know, you and I have both found in our lives that sometimes happily ever after means happily ever after separately. And, and that, you know, the barn burns down and now I can see the moon, you know, like, and I think that, you know, you, you are the sum of all of these things, you know, and, and as two people who divorced and then found love after our divorce, and even my ex-wife, she's been remarried for 15 years to an amazing guy. Our, our son just, our oldest son just got married a couple of months ago, and we were all at the wedding together, and I'll tell you a funny story. We were sitting at the wedding…

AI assessment note: “I hope that people who are just getting into relationships read it”